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London set for massive pro-Palestinian protest demanding Gaza ceasefire
(www.independent.co.uk)
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this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2023
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Civilians are innocent. Can the actions of a few condemn the whole group?
If your in a house, that is on fire, would you want to be rescued even if there was a arsonist with you?
Collective punishment is nasty unjust business. Where do you draw the line on the group your punishing? And if the innocents harmed in the collective punishment decide to collectively punish you right back... that is just fair - right?
Is a war always collective punishment in your opinion, or just in this case? How is Palestine not also committing collective punishment?
Your constant calling of what about isn't serving you well.
If Hamas was engaged in a similar long term action against a large civilian population, there would be protests against them too.
For the last 21 days the majority of civilians suffering are in Gaza, so Gaza gets the protestors today.
Squeaky wheel gets the oil.
Saying the people of Gaza need to die to satisfy your thirst for revenge just means the cycle of killing wont end with you
Don't put words in my mouth, please. I don't have a "thirst for revenge" or am saying people in Gaza "need to die"!
It's you who wants Jewish civilians to just be murdered and kidnapped and Hamas get applauded for it. (Feels bad, right?)
In their enthusiastic zeal to defend Palestine people are incredibly apologetic towards Hamas and similar groups. And seem all to happy to forget the kind of politics Palestine puts on display. And that for several decades now.
I wish people would think more long-term and realistic instead of screaming at each other who is the bigger protector of the oppressed. It seems shallow to be honest, and not really in favour of a better situation.
Why is it so hard to agree that killing civilizations is bad and nobody should do it. Why does pointing out the Gazan civilians are dying have to be conditioned on anything else?
Point me to where I wrote civilizations should be killed.
You never say the words explicitly...
You simply say 'what else should Israel do'.
Your posting history never is about saving civilians.
Notice how you didn't agree with my last post that 'killing civilians is bad and no one should do it'. Do you agree with that?
Of course I do. When you are digging through my post history you should have seen that I said that multiple times already.
When I look through your post history, though, I don't see a shred of sympathy for Israelis. Just apologies for the atrocities Palestine is committing. Are these people not responsible for their own doing?
Your conflating the people of Palestine and Hamas. That's like balming Jews globally for the actions of the IDF.
Palestine is not committing atrocities, Hamas is. Most Palestinians don't live in Gaza, so the majority of Palestinians don't support Hamas.
Even in your last comment your assigning collective responsibility for individual actions. That's an implicit endorsement of collective punishment.
We're all humans, should we be killing random humans for the actions of Hamas?
For what it's worth, I'm very sympathetic to the Israeli civilians who've been killed. It's a terrible experience they went through. I don't wish that on anybody.
I did not however, have solidarity with the Israeli government policies, which created a situation where violence is inevitable
You still didn't answer the question and avoiding it. Seems almost like you don't condemn the violence and attacks towards Israel and Israelis and think they deserve it.
The majority of Palestinians in Palestine and other countries celebrate the attacks Hamas commits. I've seen it here on the streets in my neighborhood how they were giving out candy and laughing when Hamas murdered and kidnapped Israelis on the music festival and in the villages.
Oh well your question was " are these people not responsible for their own actions? " In my response was clearly, you're conflating the Palestinian civilians, and the actions of Hamas. And then I gave you counterexamples.
If you wanted to ask me do I feel terrible for the Israeli civilians that have been killed? Yes I feel terrible, nobody should suffer like that. Nobody should be in the path of violence.
When Palestinians weren't with Hamas they wouldn't celebrate their violence.
Without them changing as well, there will be no end to the violence.
There you go again. Blaming the civilians for what's happening to them. You can speak for an entire population? All Palestinian support Hamas? And if they don't support Hamas they celebrate hamas's actions? That's a big assumption, and a catch 22.
Clearly not all Jewish people support the bad things happening Gaza, I know this, because they're a diverse population with different moral composes, and some of them have even gone on record saying hey this is a terrible situation it shouldn't be happening.
Quite honestly, I think your internal biases, inform your reactions. And you don't examine your own biases. You think I'm pro Hamas, I'm not. You said you looked at my posting history, I'm pretty sure you didn't, cuz it's quite extensive, and you would have seen me arguing with pro Hamas people.
Quite frankly, I don't care about the situation, these people have been killing each other since before I was born, and they will continue to kill each other long after I am dead. What I do care about is people making incorrect arguments online, without thinking about their biases, without thinking about the effect their advocating for. Which is why we had that whole argument about asymmetric power imbalances in the other thread.
So you believe it's an incorrect statement that for peace Palestine has to change as well?
Palestine has to change to find a stable peaceful situation, as does Israel. As I indicated they probably have to combine and come to terms with each other.