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Private Ownership of Social Rules is Inherently Anti-Democratic (lemmy.tf)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone

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Remember, the social Democrats sided with the Nazis over the socialists. They’ve done it every time they’ve been given the opportunity, and will continue to do so as many times as people fall for their shtick.

“The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house."
-Audre Lorde

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[-] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

No, neither would be good, certainly. And yes, the US utilizes forced labor in nearly every prison in the country. Likely all of your license plates, and probably much of your office furniture, were made by prisoners. Involuntary servitude and slavery is prohibited, except as punishment for a crime.

The point is to point out that the belief that the USSR was some unbelievably oppressive society with instant gulags and that did nothing for its people is objectively wrong, and in fact it was at even its worst Significantly less oppressive both domestically and abroad than the current United States. It objectively lifted millions of people out of poverty, though. It objectively lifted the life expectancy in most of the allied SSRs. In fact, the majority of citizens in post soviet states today preferred life under socialism.

What specific satellite states are you referencing? I’d love to look up more.

[-] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

The baltics are probably the best example of states harmed by USSR imperialism.

The USSR was unbelievably oppressive, especially to the annexed satellite states, the US being the same seems rather irrelevant, also as I pointed out it mostly benefitted the Russian people, not the annexed states they controlled.

Also I definitely need a source for the majority of people currently in ex soviet satellite states saying life was better under the USSR. Saying stuff like that here will most likely get you punched because pretty much anyone older than 40 either lost someone personally to the USSR occupation or knows someone who did.

[-] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 3 points 1 year ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostalgia_for_the_Soviet_Union

In 2011, a poll conducted by Pew Research Center found that 82% of Ukrainians, 61% of Russians and 56% of Lithuanians believed the standard of living in their countries had fallen since the Soviet dissolution, respectively.[11] It also found that a further 34% of Ukrainians, 42% of Russians and 45% of Lithuanians approved of the change from the Soviet command economy to a market economy.[12]

A poll in 2013 conducted by Gallup found that a relative majority of respondents in Armenia, Kyrgyzstan, Ukraine, Russia, Tajikistan, Moldova and Belarus agreed that the Soviet dissolution harmed rather than benefited their countries.[13] Additionally, 33% of Georgians and 31% of Azerbaijanis also agreed with this sentiment.[13] Only 24% of respondents in the post-Soviet states surveyed by Gallup agreed that the Soviet dissolution benefited their countries.

In 2017, another poll conducted by Pew Research Center found that 69% of Russians, 54% of Belarusians, 70% of Moldovans and 79% of Armenians claimed that the breakup of the Soviet Union was a bad thing for their country.[15] With the exception of Estonia, the percentage of people who agreed with the statement was higher amongst people aged 35 or over.[15] 57% of Georgians and 58% of Russians also said that Joseph Stalin played a very/mostly positive role in history.[15]

Polling cited by the Harvard Political Review in 2022 showed that 66% of Armenians, 61% of Kyrgyz, 56% of Tajikistanis, and 42% of Moldovans regretted the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

[-] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

The dissolution of the soviet union caused quite a lot of economic issues in countries more integrated into it's economy so a poll that says a country was harmed by the dissolution isn't saying much. I'm pretty sure quite a few German citizens would say they were harmed by the fall of the Nazi regime when it fell, that has no bearing on which was better or even which people prefer. Also in the poll for that source it seems the most anti USSR countries were skipped for some reason.

Also the living standards of 2011 Lithuania and Ukraine must have been pretty bad, I'm assuming that would also be the case for countries like Moldova too but that study only covers the 3. Lithuania is a bit of a surprise though but I doubt the numbers are anything close to that now as quality of life in the baltics has improved massively since the USSR.