Flippanarchy
Flippant Anarchism. A lighter take on social criticism with the aim of agitation.
Post humorous takes on capitalism and the states which prop it up. Memes, shitposting, screenshots of humorous good takes, discussions making fun of some reactionary online, it all works.
This community is anarchist-flavored. Reactionary takes won't be tolerated.
Don't take yourselves too seriously. Serious posts go to !anarchism@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Rules
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If you post images with text, endeavour to provide the alt-text
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If the image is a crosspost from an OP, Provide the source.
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Absolutely no right-wing jokes. This includes "Anarcho"-Capitalist concepts.
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Absolutely no redfash jokes. This includes anything that props up the capitalist ruling classes pretending to be communists.
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No bigotry whatsoever. See instance rules.
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This is an anarchist comm. You don't have to be an anarchist to post, but you should at least understand what anarchism actually is. We're not here to educate you.
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No shaming people for being anti-electoralism. This should be obvious from the above point but apparently we need to make it obvious to the turbolibs who can't control themselves. You have the rest of lemmy to moralize.
Join the matrix room for some real-time discussion.
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Vote anyway.
Yes, they suck. They suck a lot less than Trump and the Republican party though, and in a choice between two you absolutely should be voting for the less shit choice.
I'll remind that a vote for anyone doesn't prevent you from taking other actions. Considering the way that this administration has gone so far, not voting might drastically limit other actions that can be taken.
From best option in voting to worst:
My options will not be great in all races, but you can damn well bet I'll be voting.
I'll also note that they wouldn't be working so hard to try and take away peoples right to vote if they didn't think it risked their plans.
Please, put their plans at risk. Take every path to a better option.
I can't wait for you to realize your voting option list is literally this for many people:
Voting for a good candidate -> trump!
Voting for a better candidate than you have -> trump!
Voting for the least shit choice -> trump!
Not Voting -> fuck this noise
Voting for the worst possible choice -> what troll dems are running!
Once you start putting magnitudes on directionality you wont get the outcome you think you'll get. see literally the campaigns of harris/clinton.
When people tell you your candidate sucks and they wont vote for them, that's a problem for you and your candidate to resolve not the voter who is informing you of their disdain for your candidate.
Yes, this is exactly what I'm doing when I'm withholding my vote from shitty dem and repub candidates who have been enabling this behavior for decades. (see above)
So what's your solution? Pouting in the corner and saying "I'm not playing"?
No you don’t understand “my method of revolution is much more effective and is the only true path to freedom.”
Proceeds to never do revolution.
It’s a cop out for most of them tbh
Plenty have been targetted with propaganda.
I have a related degree, but it's no secret that you target those who are never going to vote for you with propaganda to make them cynical and abstain from voting. It's what Cambridge Analytica was infamous for (Brexit, first Trump campaign, etc.), but there are others.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Cynicism was a significant factor in the downfall of the Weimar Republic. That cynicism was in large part fostered and exacerbated by Nazi propaganda.
Everyone is susceptible to propaganda, but especially those who think they aren't. Propaganda is especially effective when it contains a kernel of truth.
They can't ever actually describe how things will work after the revolution.
It all hinges on the assumption that humans will instantly stop being selfish assholes. Nothing in recorded history supports that assumption.
Who said I'm pouting/not playing. just because i dont for your candidate doesnt mean Im not taking actions. Sorry I'm currently busy running a network protecting my local community from the jackboots. LMK when you have a candidate who isnt running on 'planning to murder friends and family in the middle east' and 'going to continue promoting corporate interests at the expense of working americans' and I'll vote for them.
You're literally doing the same thing the person who I called out is doing. inferring incorrect motives from a noisy signal.
I'm just curious if you're getting involved in grassroots activism, promoting candidates you agree with, canvassing the neighborhood to try to drum up support, etc. Because these are the sorts of things that need to happen in order to produce a candidate you agree with. It's completely disienguous to put the entire onus of finding a candidate you agree with on other people.
I want you to vote. I care less about who you vote for than I do you voting at all. Exercising your civic right to choose your representation is a big deal, and I encourage you to stop getting mad at other people for not doing your own legwork, and instead get out there and promote a candidate you agree with. Hell, maybe you should run yourself. I don't know, but I do know that sitting around getting mad because you don't like the major candidates without doing anything about it gets us all nowhere.
I mean, the DSA is doing a half way decent job of that in at least a few electorates...
Indeed they are. guess what candidates I've done work for....
You are confusing individual action to limit further harm with a candidate's strategy to win votes. They are not the same thing. No one is saying "we want apathetic do-nothings to win" they're saying "I'd rather not have the villians win, if possible"
Oi, god people are so dense. Please tell me, which one did I think was not a villian? If you want your candidate to win, please put forward one who isnt a villian and I'll glad vote for them.
I wasn't the person you replied to here, but I think we are talking about Palpatine vs Team Rocket here.
I'd vote for Team Rocket over Palpatine any day of the week.
This isnt about you. I've told you this repeatedly. Its about the people you're trying to get to vote and they dont care about your preferences. LMK when you have a point that isnt 'other people should vote like i do'
I don't believe I said that at any point, and I'd encourage you to not try and put words in my mouth.
literally the initial comment I responded to w/ you. lol. if you can't find a candidate you can say 'hey this is the person you can vote for because of ....' thats a candidates problem. not the voter who has 0 interest in voting for them because they're shitty.
you're entire post is 'vote for this less genocidal candidate' as if its incentive. fuck off.
I suggested people vote.
You continue to try and make my words something they aren't, and you can fuck right off with that behavior.
I think you grossly underestimate my understanding.
No, my answer does not change. If you take the time to read it rather than blindly respond to me recommending to vote anyway, you may discover why.
you think not voting is different from voting for the least shit choice. where is my corporate needs you to find the differences photo.... if you want someones vote you need to find a candidate that has a platform they'll vote for. simple as that.
Yes.
It is. And I consider it foolish to pretend otherwise.
Exactly, I understood your point precisely. The problem is you dont understand human behavior and its why you end up losing. repeatedly. to trump.
You: I dont have to change! You have to change!.
Other person: walks away
You: shocked pikachu
No, you clearly did not understand.
"Not voting" is a message of apathy, not discontent.
"Not voting" is being OK with things as they are.
"Not voting" is not taking every avenue possible.
"Not voting" is nothing more than giving up.
You should try reading my comment again.
Not voting is being ok with people like trump being in change
Yup, thats exactly what it tells them. Whether or not its the intention the non-voters want, thats the message sent.
As I said. you're not understanding.
false. I vote every election, I dont vote for everything on the ballot, sometimes i leave the ballot empty. two very different things. all you need to do is look at mandami's results for the distinction. spend some time there and understand that there are many people willing to show up for the right candidate but wont show up for the shitshow that is the dem party currently.
You need to stop putting your values into your distinctions between the tiers.
So... You didn't "not vote". Cool. What I said. Awesome.
I think there is some fundamental confusion here that I can't go into your brain and point to.
There are many things on a ballot, and many different dems. There are members of the DSA running under the dem ticket. There are members of the WFP running under the dem ticket.
I will apologize only slightly for the caps here - NOT VOTING SENDS A MESSAGE THAT YOU ARE OK WITH ANY OUTCOME. Whether you want that to be the message or not is inconsequential. If you want to do something about the candidates, DO IT MORE THAN A MONTH AND CHANGE BEFORE AN ELECTION.
If thats a message you are OK with, go for it.
I'm not.
Edit: mobile typo.
Again this incorrect. It can also mean NEITHER OUTCOME IS ACCEPTABLE TO ME see the difference?
Thats your intention. That isn't the message.
No, please stop and think. I'm telling you that you cannot infer what you think your inferring from people who didnt vote. The non-vote is literally a schrodingers cat situation you cannot make claims about the non-voters position unless you explicitly ask them.
Let me redo your list of options.
The fact I personally show up and hand in an empty ballot is a personal behavioral quirk. I'm telling you that you're entire premise is built on the false assumption that the two non-voting instances are the same thing. which they are not. they're very different and need to be solved in very different ways. and there are more than two variations there but they're outside the scope of this discussion.
Dems are currently trying to figure out how to solve the loss of voters who are saying 'None of the candidates are acceptable to me' by assuming they're in 'A candidate is acceptable to me' group (someone who ends up voting). Instead of realizing that anyone in the 'A candidate is acceptable to me' group already has a prefered candidate (that isnt them) and that they should figure out why they lost voters.
Already did, but sure.
I'm not the one who will be doing the inferring. This should be the first thing you try to understand before trying to get me to pretend what you're suggesting is going to make sense (PS: It doesn't).
The ones who will be doing the inferring are the political strategists. The ones who tell politicians, who tell the DNC and RNC the best strategy for what they want.
You know that good ol' meme about the overton window? Want to know how it keeps cranking to the right?
"Leftists aren't voting. To get voters, you'll need to shift right."
This comes from polling information, from voting records, etc. Not voting is a great way to keep cranking that window to the right.
They aren't going to bother trying to capture the people not voting.
This is shown further with systems that allow someone like Mamdani to succeed. They are already working on one approach to capture votes, so they try to prevent situations that will require a strategy change.
You can obviously do whatever you'd like, I'm encouraging people to vote. I sure as anything won't tell people to not vote and continue decades of the same message, get the same results, and then be mad about those results.
I also know that if you want to make a difference in who is on the ballot, that doesn't happen after the ballots are set. That was months ago. I put my efforts in to push the people I wanted to then. Some of them are on the ballot, maybe I helped with it, maybe I should have done more, idk. But I did what I could and there are some progressive candidates locally that I wanted that hopefully will get in.
And if you want to change who is on the ballot too, you should also put in efforts a lot earlier than a month and change before. The deadline has already passed just about everywhere, including last-minute petitions for a vacancy.
Vote by mail ballots are being prepped (I do not recommend voting by mail, use a drop box).
Early voting is single digit weeks away.
The time to complain about who is on the ballot has long since passed.
Now take a moment and realize that if people didnt complain then, and then don't vote now, what message comes across?
Not the one you're claiming IMO.
Oi. Let me explain something clearly: You can literally be screaming outside of their conventions and they'll still ignore you (see harris' campaign). The only thing they'll understand is you not voting for them, that does not mean you need to vote for the other guy. long as you continue to think 'you must vote for the least bad option' they'll continue to ignore you and you wont be able to convince people who already dont vote for your 'least bad option' to come out.
no its not. candidates need to give people a reason to vote for them. remember harris' 11th hour policy reveal? because I do... fucking weed legalization. a policy basically everyone already has. not health care, not a reasonable life. weed. jfc.
people have been complaining for literally decades. harris literally voted against raising the minimum wage as VP and you wonder why she lost. Remember obama's hope and change + universal healthcare? because I do. where is it? oh right, every candidate who wasnt bernie / warren ran on not doing it since.
congrats welcome to corporate propaganda, first time here? this simply isnt fucking true. never has been. they dont vote for shitty corporate candidates, there is a difference. people who understand what the term marxism is about are not the ones you need to convince to vote. Do you know how many times i've had to explain to people that 'electibility' means absolutely nothing? They're not the leftists. Its the liberals like yourself who think constantly giving your vote to the corporate cunts sliding to the right is worthwhile as a form of harm reduction. jfc.
no you're not. you're telling people they're bad people for not voting for shitty candidates and wonder why they dont want to interact with you. while completely ignoring the knock on effects your preferred voting strategy (a stupid fucking concept, having a strategy, in the first place) has on lived outcomes which are similarly bad. arguably for more people atm since it resulted in trump twice because the dems politicians havent learned. they're still supporting the war in iran, they're still blocking wage increases, they're still blocking minimum paid leave, they're still trying to throw trans individual and other minority groups under the bus, etc.
You want to encourage people to vote? go push your candidates to adopt policies the people you want to encourage to vote want. Don't tell them to vote for the least shitty candidate. talk to them and find out what they want. they'll fucking tell you. then talk to your candidate and tell them to grow a pair. 20 million people were screaming at you idiots during biden/harris' campaign that a red line was being cross. wake the fuck up. stop with the strategy nonsense and attempting to shame people who dont think your candidates are worth two shits.
I'm just going to keep repeating myself here, so I'll be done with this comment chain now.
If you have questions, you can read my.comments again, because I've already addressed all of this. I'm not interested in doomer shit.
Lol, then walk away bro. All I see if you here struggling to prove yourself right.
That sounds like a you problem. ;)
functionally I'm grateful harris lost it woke a lot of people up. sadly not you though. you'll continue trucking on with your 'at least I voted for the least horrible fucking option!' path blindly until the ground falls out below you into fascism.
"I'm grateful people are dying, children are being murdered, and families are being torn apart because I feel like some people realized Trump does bad things" is a pretty shit take IMO.
You mean all the things biden/harris were enabling the last year 1/2 of their term? wake up. others already did.
The scale is quite a bit different, as are many of the actions taken. Let's not ignore reality.
If there were no actual difference you wouldn't care if Harris lost.
I didnt care that harris lost. i've literally said this repeatedly. she lost because of her own mistakes, like supporting a genocide and ignoring the economic plight of the middle class. While literally 20 million people screamed at her to change course.
oh boy! THIS CANDIDATE DOES A SMIDGEN LESS GENOCIDE. SIGN ME UP! wtf are you goldilocks trying to pick a mattress?
Mhmm.
Done with this comment chain too.
yeah I dont vote for jsut a little genocide sorry not sorry.
Goodbye.
You're glad we're at war with Iran? You're glad ICE is murdering citizens and disappearing non citizens with impunity? You are 14
Are you done putting words in my mouth? go troll elsewhere child.
I didn't put shit in your mouth beside what was already there, child.