askchapo

You'd be surprised, a sucker punch often ends the fight as the two people who originated the conflict have found a resolution and now one side has to take care of an unconscious person. Fights generally get out of hand when the fight goes on long enough to get the attention of the group who then see a friend who actively needs a hand.

Gambling that they recoil in agony instead of them and their friends increasing the level of violence

The vast majority of untrained people who experience adrenaline do not fight, they typically flee, or freeze.

Gambling that they flee or freeze instead of increasing the level of violence

They really won't...... People generally do not think or react rationally under stress or pain. They're just going to try and push you away.

What are they going to push on while you're biting their nose?

And they would react to this differently than a "dirty fight"? People react to pain, not the level of justification of that pain.

They can react however they want, but you'll have already made distance because you've gotten their hands off of you and stepped out of the pocket. But again, as the focus appears to be on untrained people, the only point was that I believe it to be a higher % tactic for making distance as compared to a headbutt.

You do all the time..... Mostly they are bystanders who get clobbered for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The fact that people get unlucky in a chaotic environment is something we agree on. The point of the last message is that I believe this is not dispositive of rude techniques increasing the level of violence which is a bad idea if you're already losing.

Those guys get the shit kicked out of them or stabbed all the time...... People willing to do violence to a level that endangers someone's life do not need a rational justification to do so. I have had patients who literally got shot for saying "what are you going to do, shoot me?".

Are there incredibly violent people out there for whom it doesn't matter your level of violence? Sure. Is randomly fighting/antagonizing random people a stupid idea with no upside? Absolutely. Can you be subject to escalated violence even if you're fighting with only fists? For sure.

Would you have been better off against a wrath-drunk person if you used rude techniques instead of just your fists? An interesting question, admittedly. Against multiple? No, there's nothing short of a weapon or nice running shoes that's going to help you out without a hefty dose of luck (in opponent selection, environment, and how the punches land). But a single cruel person for whom there is no de-escalation nor escape, you have no combat sport experience, nor weapon, nor backup then I guess it's worth a shot. I wouldn't hang my hat on it, but it sucks that you got in that situation in the first place because a gamble seems like it's what could get you out. Also, think about it! As they increase the level of violence against you and make your situation increasingly hopeless, consider how easy it becomes to justify increasing the level of violence in return. Do you think the aggressor is getting a good EV by risking recoiling in agony against you? Risking you taking out a weapon? Risking police intervention? Even the aggressor is more vulnerable in this escalated fight! Even if they still win they might have gouged eyes, broken fingers, or a felony case. And for what? The cash in your wallet or something? Some fragile, toxic-masculine sense of honor?

But if you keep encountering wrath-drunk people, you're not instigating it, and you can't just avoid them then you probably need some kind of weapon more than you need a dirty technique. You'd also likely benefit better prevention like not looking like an easy target, not looking like a valuable target, being in well lit places during the day, not being alone, saying sorry no matter who's at fault, deescalating, leaving, and things of this nature. Those will save you 100 times before rude techniques save you once.

All the same, I believe there are still relevant and plentiful situations that can be made worse by increasing the level of violence against someone who already has the upper hand against you and no situations made better by increasing the level of violence against someone you're already beating.