this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2026
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I've spent a lot of time with Open Source Programmers and other nerds, including in person, and I believe at least some of the issue is that some of them feel grooming and hygiene is purely aesthetic, bordering on "shallow". Like the way many of us think about Looksmaxxing or cosmetic surgery.
Like, you spend a bunch of time and money doing your hair or washing your clothes? That time didn't improve your card playing, it didn't teach you anything new. Shouldn't people be judged by what's inside instead of what's outside? Shouldn't people be judged by their skill or merit rather than their looks?
And I intentionally wrote that last one to feel borderline, because I think a lot of people do feel that way, and do believe those things, but not to the same extent. Their boundary for "hygenic enough" requires clean. And maybe the folks I'm characterizing don't know that it's actively unpleasant to be around someone who smells bad? Or maybe they're so steeped in it they don't know how bad it is?
Tangentially, this is one of the reasons some fem people struggle in these spaces. Any amount of eye-shadow, nice shirt, or hair-style is deemed as "superfluous", and so any person who spends their time and money on such things is regarded with suspicion. They're an idiot who wastes their time on looks at best, not to be trusted making other decisions, or a charlatan trying to trick lesser men with their wiles at worst. Those are the only two choices, because there's no other imaginable reason someone could do these things.
Part of the reason those positions are reached is because of the bullying one receives often comes from “normies” who are the most aesthetically conscious.
If you take shit from Chad and Stacy your whole life you learn, perhaps even subconsciously, that biceps and cologne/eyeliner and perfume are signals that someone is a certain type of way; and you never want to be what they are, or bring that energy to the table.
This explains a lot. Thanks for this perspective.
Sure but also you don’t have to do all that to just not stink? Wear clean clothes, never work out, never wear make up and use unscented products.
Funny thing is that they end up dressing and styling in a similar manner while looking down on people who deviate from the unspoken dress code. By rejecting fashion they are making a conscious choice in the way they dress and are therefore participating in fashion.
An aesthetic drawn from an ethic is the most authentic atheistic possible
Sure, but if they all end up looking similar to each other it's still another form of fashion just not mainstream fashion. They are still signaling, consciously or subconsciously, that they are part of the in-group they want to associate with by the way they carry and dress themselves. It's no different from what the Chads and Stacys who they think are superficial do.
Same thing with the "punk rock" look. It's so not punk.
I’m sorry but that type of think is delusional. Like because, taking a shower or washing your clothes doesn’t make you better at cards (why would it??) you don’t need to do it, why would these things be related? They serve completely different purposes. It sounds more like justifications to not do something they don’t enjoy or don’t want to do.
It is, yeah. It's also what they believe. It's sort of a sour grapes situation.
For most people, this kind of behavior is socialized out of them by the time they reach adulthood. But a lot of YuGiOh players, and players of other kinds, do not leave their house. To such a person, getting ready to go out requires maybe an hour or more of prep time, mostly because they don't know what they're doing, for what feels like 5 minutes of play at grocery store. They would think of this as superfluous and pointless.
A point of similarity I know will ruffle a few feathers: do you make your bed every day?
No I don't. Why should I? My bed sheets being made or messy doesnt impact anyone else and it barely impacts me. It's just not a valid comparison to having simple bodily hygiene when going outside.
Your whole premise relies on them failing basic biology class (or somehow skipping out on the microbiology part?) because hygiene is also just about basic health.
So either they're all very stupid when it comes to basic health, or there's multiple issues or some other major one.
There's a lot of space between "that dude smells bad" and "that dude is hurting his health by not showering".
Idk, fungi thrive in said environments.
So? Doesn't mean they're (a) bad for your health or (b) able to outcompete everything else to the point of becoming problematic.
Jock itch and co are bad for your health, just not severely
So I tend to go on long trips, and I end up going 3-4 weeks without a shower if I'm off sailing or camping in the deep woods or whatever. Edit: of course I do make sure to get naked and air out regularly, if I'm not able to wash.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that I get pretty funky, but I've never gotten jock itch or anything. No skin conditions.
I think a lot of modern "hygiene" standards have less to do with hygiene and more to do with selling people more crap. Actually, the only time I remember having skin issues was the three months in 8th grade equivalent that I used deodorant. Once I stopped that, all the irritation went away.
I occasionally ask people around me if I smell, or if it's obvious I usually only shower 3-4 times per week, and most people are surprised to find out I shower 3-4 times per week and don't wear deodorant.
Edit2: diet also plays a huge part. I tend to eat almost exclusively rice, beans, and veggies. I recently let a friend who had some shit going down live in my basement for six months, and his primarily junk food diet definitely did a number on both odor and my toilets. I didn't even know that level of mess was possible in six months.
Being exposed to the elements and, I'm assuming in decent shape based off what you said, is pretty different from being indoors sitting all day on a likely less ideal diet.
Also how much you smell depends on how hairy you are too.
I've gone camping and without long showers too due to lack of water out in the wilderness, even going nearly barefoot, but between the dirt dust and nature's VOCs sticking on you, it's hard to smell too bad unless you're sweating like crazy as you do some kind of manual labor. And even then, the sun is a good deodorant.
Same with sailing - I think the salt spray inhibits things.
The other thing I don't wear underwear when out camping. So there's much more air down there too. Not the case if using underwear and sitting in a chair all day.
Yeah, I think we're in full agreement.
I guess the part that kinda annoys me is that the common advice is "use deodorant" and not "try going for a walk and eating a carrot". This ties into the many issues I see in industrialized society being caused by shortcuts. Yeah, smearing yourself in deodorant fixes the problem for today, but the underlying issue will be worse tomorrow. I guess there's no profit in worrying about tomorrow.