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Some core developers of Lemmy are hardcore tankies and that attracts others.
Also, for someone from Africa it's weird to claim they are not involved in this. China is strategically investing in African countries. If your country has any mineral or other strategic resources, China is no doubt already there.
Africa as a whole, much like India is waiting for the main players to win/lose to pick sides officially or otherwise take each other out and clear the field. Aka its nothing but silence here on most things. As for china's investments. Its a mixed bag. Its good to get more honest investments than USAid but simultaneously China is making much more than they are giving. It's a parasitic loan, not a loan of good faith. Not to include the extreme racism of Chinese influencers coming here and making videos of children saying in Mandarin how they are dumb monkeys and need Chinese enslavement.
cripes.
Yeah it's not good and if anything around here makes it from the village to the news it's worse than whatever the news is showing and if that news makes it global I can promise you it is much worse than they are showing.
I love to see dirt on china but I wish there was a better source than BBC since it's not the most credible outlet (right wing aligned).
Do you have any other sources for this?
Has the political stance of the devs ever impacted lemmy in any way? From what I can tell they do a pretty good job isolating their views to their instance. Honestly apart from a few comments I rarely see any tankies.
Yes. As per OP, tankies are everywhere in Lemmy. More so than other platforms, it's hard to miss. OP isn't wrong about that.
If a user isn't aware of tankies, they could easily be swayed by the constant posting of pro-CCP crap here.
I keep reading about this, can you show me some examples of pro-CCP sentiment? Tbf I block political communities anyway but I'm curious what tankie behaviour people keep referring too.
just have a look at genzedong@lemmygrad.ml but put your tinfoil hat on before to prevent potential brain damage
I went to their instance but only found a single post?
Edit: Oh it's a community, but it's contained right? I'm getting pretty tired of people talking about Lemmy in general when a simple defederation solves the issue.
lemmygrad.ml is not federated with many, many other instances exactly because of their authoritarian BS, including dbzer0.com. you might need to log out and visit lemmygrad.ml directly.
If you want the general idea you can also just take a look at yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com and search for lemmy.ml.
~~I went to lemmygrad to view the user, I know about the defederation~~ I didn't realise you were talking about communities
doesn't make sense to single out any user over there, they are all bootlickers for the kinds of Putin and Xi. Funnily enough, this would make them prime MAGA material too lol
I get it, it's just not a good enough reference for a Lemmy-wide issue. Reddit had MAGA and die hard conservative communities, but they stay isolated; just as I'm seeing here on Lemmy. On Reddit they had brigading issues periodically, just as on Lemmy, you can just defederate on instance or user basis and problem solved.
Cowbee as well
Literally the #1 touter of the CCP and China.
Is wholly incapable of assessing China in an unbiased manner, will only see positives or reframe away the negatives.
Keyboard warrior w a billion sources on anything for his sophistry.
Tbh there is little evidence. There is a lot of shitposting people socialists are pissed off being called "tankie" or communist as a slur. I mean this shit is old. McCarthy would love this "oh you're a tankie!" shit.
The worst I've seen is a communist community discussing that Stalin needs to be rehabilitated for his role in building up the USSR despite his "mistakes" (The big oopsie of 3.3 million dead in the great purge). I mean that is just stupid.
The larger issue is the laser focus the liberal community has on tankies, it's not the fascists that are currently rising or already ruling, noooo it's the "authoritarian tankies" that are at the lowest of their power ever. Whoever has been putting money into this tankie meme is brilliant. Just amplify that shit and stoke that hatred. Fascism bad, but oh please don't be too radical lol.
So basically lemmy failed as a platform precisely because the neoliberal have managed to already cut out the socialist heart of lemmy.
Where are you getting 3.3 million killed in the purges? The number of sentencings to death was 799,455, and we know many were canceled as the purges went beyond what was expected.
Wikipedia since I haven't read history about this. I know it's not a reliable source but without doing a deep dive, what is lol. And sending people to the gulag wasn't much better than death, so counting the deaths there too you get 3.3 mil. But the precise number hardly matters. Not even the most favorable view matters outside of academia. It happened, it's a mountain of bodies. It simply cannot be excused or rehabilitated. You must say "this was very bad, it must never happen again".
And I'm sure you all would, but then how can you in the same breath rehabilitate the man at the head of the government that did it?
If you want to promote the (undoubtedly many) good things about Stalinism you'll need to repackage, rebrand, rebrand it. Call it early Sovjietism or something.
But part of it is that we as humanity still lacks a good answer about what to do about how the "calculus of power" can subvert anything. There will always be sociopaths, narcissist and schemers that pay lip service while min-maxing their own gain, no matter the ideology or religion. There is no doubt that the worst people did the best during the purges. It must have been an easy promotion bonanza. Denounce, report, promote, repeat. Easy soviet-style rank-maxxing lol. The theory of communism is incomplete without an good answer to this.
Anyway that thread shocked me and gave me a new (worse) perspective on the whole "Liberals vs Tankies" culture war. Maybe the fundamental crisis is that we lack any theory or ideology that can lead us out of the current mess. All existing ideologies have demonstrably failed, and maybe we've reached the limit of what an average person can reasonably learn and understand and execute. People subconsciously know this so as things get more desperate, there is rising intellectual pain or tension and desire that "but something has to work!" and I just want to believe in something!! So people make themselves believe and ignore or rationalize the glaring problems and increasingly shut the door to discordant noises.
Wikipedia shows the figure I gave for the purges, not 3.3 million. The deaths in the gulag system should not at all be counted with those related to cracking down on corruption and terrorist organizing (ie the purges), as a huge portion happened during World War II due to starvation. The Nazis took Ukraine, the USSR's breadbasket, and this caused mass famine that hit prisoners the hardest. The soviet prisons were actually fairly progressive for their time, see Russian Justice for that.
The problem with your framing, that we "must never let this happen again," is that it assumes deliberate malpractice by the Soviets. The purges were a response to real infiltration, corruption, and terrorism, such as the assassination of Kirov. Your characterization of the purges as "soviet rank-maxxing" are absurd and baseless, it was a period of intense paranoia due to the successful assassination of one of the top soviet figures and the discovery of terrorist cells within the Soviet Union. The purges were widely supported by the public, it was not a period of terror.
The deaths in soviet prisons during World War II were causes by the Nazis, not the Soviets. Deaths due to dekulakization, which your Wikipedia article references, are analogous to the deaths of slave owners in the United States. Liberation of the peasants was paid for with the blood of the kulaks, bourgeois semi-slave owners.
There's also the question of "Stalinism." Stalinism does not exist outside of specific socioeconomic policies under Stalin, it isn't an actual ideology. Marxism-Leninism is an ideology, and Stalin's contributions to it are largely limited to advancements on the national question and linguistics. The bulk comes from Marx and Lenin, and moreso Engels than Stalin.
You were given good answer to all of these questions in that thread. The Marxist position isn't that "Stalin did nothing wrong," but that western framing of Stalin is incredibly biased. Your Wikipedia article does this well, it blames Stalin for deaths inflicted by the Nazis, and it capes for semi-slavers, fascists, and terrorists. Stalin of course made mistakes, and there was excess committed under Stalin, there is no doubt of this. However, you take the incorrect stance that Stalin was more bad than good, and do so by also caping for the same semi-slavers and fascists Wikipedia did. This is why historiography is important, and why dispelling the "black myth" around Stalin is important.
I highly recommend Domenico Losurdo's Stalin: The History and Critique of a Black Legend. Losurdo cites near exclusively western sources, and explains both why Stalin is so hated, and why Stalin is so loved as well. It's a history and critique of Stalin's legend more than the man himself, which is important considering how much the figure is distorted by historiography.
You admit to not knowing the history, maybe take that as a chance to dig into it?
Cowbee bringing the receipts, as usual. You're efforts are aprpeciated
Thanks! 🫡
Look, even if I'd accept all of those explanations as given - at the end of the day close to a million people still were executed.
The death penalty is morally incorrect, at the very least because we know any justice system makes mistakes and you'll execute innocent. And when killing people en-masse like in the purge, there will be a lot of innocents. It might have been deemed unavoidable in 1940, but from today's perspective it is unacceptable, inexcusable, despicable, disgusting.
So - do you *really *think you can convince any emotionally stable person outside your little ivory tower with this Stalin rehabilitation thing? Do you think it makes people more or less likely to want to join a communist revolution were Stalin has been rehabilitated?
And even if you are utterly convinced of being in the absolute right here - you must see how incredibly easy you make it for neoliberals to utterly destroy you on this. Easy and total victory. What a monumental task and waste of propaganda resources it would be to convince people of "rehabilitating Stalin". A right wing think tank could not find a better issue to push into communist communities! A perfect own goal! Is this really the hill you want the hope for a new revolution to die on?
Honestly...
The purges were not simply Stalin lashing out. The purges were done by the broader Soviet government, in response to a real threat. The majority of cases simply resulted in an expulsion from government, it wasn't a naked goal to execute a certain quota of people. There was a real crisis on hand, and the Soviets responded with legal action, those found guilty of treason or other crimes punishable by death (such as murder, severe sexual assault, antisemitism, etc) were sentenced accordingly.
I have no idea what you mean by "ivory tower." The global south has a far more nuanced perception of Stalin than the west does. My stance on Stalin is a common stance among Marxist-Leninists, that he was more good than bad, especially when measured honestly and accurately against contemporary monsters like Churchill.
And no, it isn't easy for Neoliberals to "destroy" us communists. When the Red Scare club of Stalin's black legend is wielded against us, we can do one of the following:
Agree with the Red Scare version of Stalin, throwing existing socialist history and victories under the bus to "save face," which backfires and makes socialism entirely unconvincing, and relies on lying to the working classes just to agree with people that already hate us
Accurately appraise Stalin and put him in the correct historical context. Honestly tell people of his successes and mistakes, without flinching. This is the practice that does result in advancement and spreading of communist ideas.
When picking between lying by regurgitaging Red Scare mythos and taking a principled, historically accurate stance, it's clear that the latter is the only acceptable option. We cannot grow the movement through lies, we need to meet the people honestly, which involves honest engagement with past failures and successes. This does not mean conceding the point to bourgeois historiography.
Essentially, it isn't the communists giving an honest and accurate account that hurts the movement, it's the people trying to distance themselves from socialist history and alienating themselves from historical struggle. Experience shows this, which is why Marxism-Leninism is resurging while anti-AES branches of Marxism are faltering.
Here's the excellent Marketing Socialism by Nia Frome:
Read the Losurdo text I linked.
I'm sorry but not one part of your comment shows any problem with lemmy. We're using federated social media specifically so any instance/community can exist is a vacuum, and that includes those you do not agree with.
There are plenty of comms not having anything to do with politics that thrive, politically loaded content does slip into my feed and discussion is rarely uncivilised - on par with early reddit days.
This is exactly my problem, you think lemmy is one platform. It is not. It's interconnected but seperate bubbles of activity that are brought together by federation, which has always been optional.
Very early on there was a hard-coded slur censor list that was eventually changed to be settable by the instance admin, that's about it.
From what I understand, the devs are not injecting their political views into the Lemmy code. That does not mean they have not had a pro-tankie influence on the Lemmy community. As the original developers, they also set up the first major instance, lemmy.ml and they moderate that instance to have a tankie lean. Since it was the first instance, many people created their first account for it and it was the de facto standard place to start communities. As far as I know, it is still one of the most active instances.
Judging by active users, lemmy.world is the default, .ml isn't even top 3. I'm getting pretty tired of people referring to Lemmy as a single platform while it's entire purpose is to have a decentralized network where federation is always optional.
Lemmy.ml is tankie breeding grounds.
I've yet to see this impact the rest of lemmy when a simple defederation is sufficient.
If you include impact to mean a bunch of bans and defederations, sure?
I'm specifically referring to the devs themselves. Defederation being used exactly how it was intended.
Has dbzer0 defederated from ml?
They haven't, recently feddit was, but unfamiliar with the details.
I love that you think Africa's dog in the fight is because China is strategically investing in Africa and chasing mineral and strategic resources when nearly every single African country's borders were defined by the West, when entire countries were created and colonized by the West, when the US is actively bombing multiple countries in Africa and has been for decades, when the West was literally torturing, raping, kidnapping, murdering, and mass murdering Africans all over the content for centuries, when many African countries are economically subjugated by Western countries to this day by control over currency, predatory loans and structural adjustment programs designed to create dependencies, etc.
Africa's dog in the fight between the West and Asia comes primarily from the West's total subjugation of the continent.
We have a winner
And there's the tankie whataboutism I have been expecting. Everything you said is true, but my point is that China is strategically investing and they don't care about Africa, only China. African countries very much need to be aware of that.
Yes, sure, it's not altruistic. But there's a huge difference between non-violent trade relationships which benefit one party more, and also benefit the other party, just less, and purposefully ensuring that an entire continent is in a constant state of civil war and desperate poverty so you can extract the maximum amount of resources through slavery. China's foreign policy is absolutely for its own benefit but they're taking a "rising tide lifts all boats" approach there and while there are some specific things which are fair to criticise it's way better than what other major powers are doing.
As a westerner, is it really true that all Chinese investors in Africa really don’t care in the continent? It might be true but I have seen no stories showing positive relationships. That may be by design in western media?
Also, what the hell would it mean to you for one country to "care about" a continent? You're basically doing the meme:
Holy shit? You think this history is whataboutism? The OP said "I don't have a dog in this fight [because I am from Africa]" and the commenter said "[you should have a dog in the fight because of China's behavior]"
Hello? Reading comprehension? How does establishing that OP should have a dog in the fight because of Western history in Africa become "whataboutism"?
This is thought termination at its finest
The west decimating Africa shouldn't mean China gets to, too.
This is irrelevant to OP's point about Lemmy being pro-CCP.
Are you literally just going to ignore the entire other half of the post asking about why people are anti-western and saying they don't have a dog in the fight because they are from Africa? Are you that committed to attacking your political opponents that you can't even see the words that aren't about your desired debate position?
Found the tankie!
See, this is the issue. Someone doesn’t absolutely obliterate China and the .world liberals all wake up and spout their state department talking points. “China BAD! Leftists tankies!”
What about any of that was untrue? Where’s the tankie part? Cite examples.
Who's the tankie? The person saying that China hasn't bombed anyone in over 35 years or the person saying "I don't know why they hate the US so much" when the US attacked over 15 countries with tanks, bombs, drones, and missiles over the exact same time period. Might need to check yourself