this post was submitted on 13 May 2026
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What leads you to the belief that the elite have a common goal of dismantling the US?
First off, I'm not a fan of the fuzzy term "elite", but I'll assume we both know what that refers to.
People think the rich just like to get richer, that Musk and Bezos are competing to have the biggest number in their bank account. But no, they have no interest in "USD", they don't care about being crowned "richest person on the playground", they want to own the playground. They don't want to be confined by some government's laws. After a certain point, the only reason to keep accruing wealth is to one day become the government and write your own laws. To me, that goal IS what makes someone "elite". Conversely, a wealthy person who welcomes high taxes on the rich because it makes the society around them better is still wealthy, but not "elite".
The elite are always looking for a route to absolute power, and they all see the Trump administration as an opening and are all jumping at it. The only thing they have in common is they want the US govt to be weakened beyond repair, but where they differ is they all want to be the one to take its place (or retain a position of influence like Little Finger).
Got it. We generally agree on the elite motivation. But I think we disagree on government.
For me, bourgeois government is the structure of collaboration between and among the elite, not a separate entity. So I don't think Musk wants to dismantle the US government, he is playing the game between and among other elites and the field of play is the government that represents the collaboration. In so far as the government limits the power of the elite, it generally does so with the consent of the elite. The problem is that the laws remain even though the state of play changes. The system designed by and for the robber barons of the gilded age didn't work for the entrepreneurial 1950s and the system of the 1950s didn't work for the financial transformation of the 1980s and the regulation of the 1980s didn't work for the tech revolution. None of these were dismantlings of the US but reformations of the system from the old state made by the old elites for the old conditions into a new state by the new elites for the new conditions.
They fundamentally want the US to continue. It gives them a military, a way to repress the masses, access to massive natural resources, a reliable money spigot, and dominating power globally. They don't want to dismantle it. They just need to reconfigure the machine collaboratively to maximize their power.
The difference in what we're saying is semantic.
If this means a government "of the people, for the people, by the people" that maintains a monopoly on violence to ensure no one is above the law/Constitution, then I disagree.
If this means a puppet state that the "elite" holds oligarchal control over, but maintain whatever facade of democracy they need to, then I agree. But I would not call that the US govt. You could say that because they call it the "US Govt" it's still the US govt, and you could say that because they call it the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, it's a democratic republic. But I would disagree on both points.
Yeah obviously they're not going to personally crown themselves as supreme ruler on a towering citadel constructed where the whitehouse once stood like a caricature of a villain. But if the structure of "government" that we end up with is completely powerless against them, then it's objectively not the US anymore; it's just the "elite", the govt is whatever they say, they are the govt, wealth only flows wherever they say it's allowed to in order to maintain power.
And that's always their goal, to become the govt, that's what I mean.
Given that the US was never that, obviously that isn't what it means.
Incredible. No notes.
Fucking incredible
It's always been an oligarchy. At no point were the masses in charge of the US. It was founded by rich, landed gentry from Europe leading the common man to battle under the banner of liberal values, but they formed the entire government to be by of and for the land owners. They even gave MORE power to land owners who also owned people. That's how committed they were to oligarchy from the beginning. It's always been a structure by which the elite manage their affairs including how best to prevent a revolt by the masses.
Tell me not to go vote in midterms, then.
I don't waste time telling people how to vote. Electoralism is a total waste of time. I vote how I vote, keep it to myself, and spend the rest of my time not thinking about electoralism. None of these politicians deserve my free labor when 100+ Democrats just voted to expand ICE and DHS power to obtain consumer data from retail companies to use in their operation. I put my labor into deconstructing white-supremacist patriarchal capitalism in the hearts and minds of my people in my neighborhood and online, and when I do put in physical effort equivalent to door knocking, it's doing food distribution for the people around me who need food.
Go ahead. Vote in the midterms. The Ds in the house just proved to you that they're onboard with the whole fascist panopticon policing program. They've always been collaborators with the Rs. But vote. It's literally the least you can do. Don't let anyone stop you. And then, forget about elections immediately after and do something about the fact that your neighbors, their kids, and their teachers are all replicating the white supremacy myths of this country into every single generation and glossing over it all with a simple "vote for the good guys and bad things are because of the bad guys" narrative.
The US has always been a project of the elite; US democracy was only ever a facade.
The groan-worthy level of cynicism is one thing, but that claim specifically is a very entitled position to take. Yes, the elite have always tried to co-opt the US for their purposes, and in many cases have succeeded, but you could say the same of every democracy that has ever existed, and yet they did (and do) exist.
Here let's try this: if you actually believe what you're saying, then tell me not to go vote in midterms. The only people spreading that rhetoric are children and bots. What are you?
Go back to reddit you insufferable fucking loser
The bourgeoisie will not allow their power to be voted away. There's a reason the choices in the voting booth are always so narrow; you're only allowed to vote for a candidate that they've pre-approved and bankrolled. Vote or don't, it doesn't actually matter.
I have a feeling we would disagree as to which countries are actually democracies.