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I have a friend who worked for, and alongside MJ (they’re credited on at least one album). They became a personal friend and have a ton of amazing stories and insane memorabilia. On the day Michael died, his phone rang and rang with a LOT of people wishing him condolences.
They tell me that MJ never really got a childhood, and in some ways lived his childhood through other children. My friend spent a couple nights at his Neverland ranch with his own kids and tells me that he trusted MJ and doesnt believe for a minute that he was actually guilty of anything untoward, and that things like “sleepovers” really did happen but were really from a place of innocence and MJ just wanting to have that childlike experience that he didn’t get.
Your friend's anecdote or the victims testimony... That's a tough one.
The victim's testimony that has been debunked
How do you justify that claim with that link? What in that article supports the idea that it was debunked?
Aren't "anecdote" and "testimony" technically the same level of trustworthiness?
No...
Anecdote: "he's a nice guy who didn't have a childhood so he hung out with children, he couldn't have possibly done anything wrong, I know him" -> opinion
Victim testimony: "he took advantage of my trust and innocence and molested me. I didn't realize I'm being abused and it has given me a lifetime of mental suffering" -> data
You can say you don't trust the victims, but it isn't the same as proclaiming someone definitely didn't commit a crime because I have a positive experience with them.
Hmm, point taken. I think they're both equally valid data points in theory, which is what I was trying to convey, but to your point, "he didn't molest me" has much less determining power than "he molested me" when trying to determine if he molested someone. I see what you're saying now.
Lots of child molesters have sad origin stories. Whoop dee doo, he didn't have a childhood. He still molested kids
That's the thing, though, we really don't know that he did. He did some stuff people think is pretty suspicious, but there are genuine credibility issues with the accusers. It's not impossible that there's truth to the allegations, but from what I've seen, it's more likely that greedy people took advantage of that suspicious behavior to milk him for money.
I hear stories like this, and I think the part people stumble over is that it's very common for kids to explore their bodies and each other's at sleep overs.
It's not that hard to imagine his sleepovers being ordinary, kids sleepovers and also an environment in which he crossed some boundaries. That's very common at sleepovers.
Yeah I don't think so. I am way over 30 years old and never heard of that.
It's uncomfortable but true.
Have you ever heard of kids playing Doctor? It's not like kids routinely engage in sexual acts, but left alone at night it's very common for them to do things like undress and compare bodies. Often it's benign, but without an understanding of safe touches, it's easy for such encounters to be unintentionally harmful.
Well, I have
Damn. I'm sorry to hear that.
what why ? there is nothing to be sorry about... clarification : no adult was ever involved to my knowledge
Self report?
I've never heard that from anyone.
Well, I have regular sleepovers with my wife and I can tell you that at least once a month there is some exploring
Can confirm - I also have sleepovers with this person's wife.
Dang. Once a month! Nice!
This is a topic that doesn't get discussed much, but if you stop and think about it for a moment you might realize that we're all aware of it, we just basically have a cultural taboo against thinking about it.
Have you ever noticed that sleepovers are almost always gender-segregated? Why do you thick that is?
well i cant speak for everyone, but when i was of the age of having sleepovers, i was very much of the mindset that girls had "cooties" and didnt want them at my sleepovers to begin with. had nothing to do with my parents decision, they werent invited to begin with.