this post was submitted on 25 Mar 2026
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Arguing that the populace shouldn't have guns, and pointing to the usa as an example, is arguing that our fascist government should have a monopoly on violence. Every successful "gun control" law has been put in place in response to persecuted minorities and activist groups having guns. For a famous example, see the Black Panthers.
Peaceful protests are impotent unless backed by a genuine threat of violence. See how little the recent "No Kings" protests have accomplished vs the death of that one health insurance ceo.
Now, I am in favor of fewer guns, but the order of operations is important. Let's start with disarming the police and abolishing ice. So long as my friends/family/neighbors/whatevers are being abducted by masked thugs in broad daylight, it is my right and my duty to defend with lethal force.
So where is the well-regulated militia defending the United States with their huge arsenal of guns? We're not hearing anything about valiant protectors of the constitution taking up arms against the domestic enemies that are ICE, MAGA, etc...it's almost as if the whole spiel about needing guns to resist a tyrannical government was BS all along. 🤔
You didn't see the like 3 or 4 multiple attempts at taking the pedophilic orange man out?
They tried. Maybe one of them will eventually succeed.
Also I'd like to point out that I noticed the ICE goons haven't went to the hood yet. Let's see how that plays out for them.
Unfortunately this man is not the issue. It's the culture that allows him to do what he is doing. Everybody knows who he is and what he stands for. But he's still not dangling from the gallows, so clearly the system has failed to correct itself.
He will die eventually, probably from one hamberder too many but the troubles won't be over then.
Man, I see this sort of thing commented all the time as some sort of “gotcha” and really have to wonder what it is you’re envisioning.
Put yourself in the shoes of a firearm owner for a moment. Evidently, you believe the US has passed a tipping point where violent resistance is necessary.
Where are you going with your gun and who are you shooting at?
And just like that, we went complete route from "without guns we can't fight fascism" to "guns are actually completely useless in fighting fascism" in two comments.
US - 1765 to 1784
EU - 1939 to 1945
Vietnam - 1955 to 1975
Yes, I’m aware that only one of these cases was literal fascism.
You can see my other comment in this chain, but firearms are the “last stand” tools to fight oppression. We’re in the midst of a particularly sensitive stage and, in my opinion, haven’t crossed the “tipping point” where a violent response would be wise or justified.
Bloody hell, are you for fucking real, WWII, seriously? The global war fought by armies has something to do with public having guns?
Fucking Vietnam? US losing a military campaign on the other side of the world is a testament of how useful it is for Americans to have guns? And then american fucking revolution, that I can't even imagine how to tie in.
I just hope for the sake of sanity that you're trolling.
I do concede that WWII was not fought and won by armed civilians, I was largely responding to “without guns we can’t fight fascism” and can see that, in the greater context of the thread, that might be less relevant. I do think the French Resistance would have been better equipped if they hadn’t had to rely on smuggled or captured weapons. A full scale invasion is going to pan out differently when most civilians are able to shoot back or organize into militia.
Vietnam is a testament to the fact that multiple military superpowers can still lose to a lesser armed (but still armed) populace.
This is where you really have me stumped and should maybe do some reading into US history, fighting this war is the foundational experience that led to the creation of the second amendment. Here’s a good place to start:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Lexington_and_Concord
Are you saying you're suffering a dearth of targets?
Again, if this is not the time to exercise your supposed God-given right to bear arms to ward off a tyrannical government then the whole point of the 2nd Amendment is moot.
I've said it before: You guys aren't going to vote your way out of this pickle. I hate to say this (sincerely!) but this is going to end in violence one way or another. 🙁
You didn’t answer the question.
Am I to infer that you think that right now is an appropriate time to actively seek out and shoot ICE agents?
You could try flowers and hugs instead, I guess? Whatever works best.
With how subtle you are you might as well work for the FBI.
no he got a point. If someone started doing that they would just get captured and tortured or killed. What can you meaningfully achieve with random violence, alone?
I see that as a cop-out to engagement in discourse, an alt account and VPN/privacy technologies would be enough to shield someone from “taking the bait”
My own opinion is that we have not reached a point where that level of response is justifiable, and I think it’s incredibly dangerous and irresponsible to suggest that it is.
The administration’s current rhetoric revolves around the domestic terrorist threat / violent insurrectionist motif that, while some people may buying into, is not being substantiated with strong evidence.
At this time, violent response / uprising by those perceived to be “on the left” will add fuel to validate that propaganda machine, it will firmly entrench the beliefs of those who might otherwise have a chance of moving away from it, and it will likely trigger a heavy-handed response leading to a substantial and catastrophic loss of life and liberty.
Hypothetically, “with how subtle you are, you might as well” be an agitator seeking to be a catalyst to what I just described.
The option going unused doesn't invalidate the need for the option to be there, moron.
Some people make it pretty clear that the only thing they understand is forced behaviors. Almost like what they're really after is eradication of individual choices on favor of top-down uniformity.
I'm pretty sure there's a name for that kind of centrally held power....
What did the murder of this CEO accomplished?
Lots of people got insurance claims approved, enabling them to get life saving care that otherwise would have been denied. It's just a shame that it was a one-off and not a recurring thing.
I didn't know about that. Do you have a reliable source?
it was in the news when it happened
Eastern europe (exluding Romania) would like to have a word.
You're a big tough guy, so I'm pretty sure you've heard of The Art of War by Sun Tzu. One of the premises of that book is that you should attack your enemy where they're weakest, not where they're strongest. Makes sense, right? Well where do you think the Trump regime is strongest? Put another way, who do you think would win in a shootout between, say, the U.S. Army and a ragtag bunch of armed leftists?
So if we can't fight the regime where they're strongest, where can we fight them? Economically. We can stop giving our hard-earned money to the companies that prop up the regime. We can do work stoppages to halt the engines that power the regime. And we can raise awareness of these issues (yes, sometimes by protests but also with other tactics) so this becomes a mass movement that has the power to actually topple the regime's pillars of support.
Yeahbwe should just make a campfire and talk to them while we are at it maybe get scoutmaster Dan to play the guitar for us while we all figure our peaceful solutions together.
They murder us in the street at protests, idk if you have seen it on tv. They are singlehandedly crashing the economy on purpose so they can extract as much from it for themselves as they can.
I would love for school shootings to stop and I think if a kid gets a gun there is an adult or likely a few that fucked up and shouldn't have given the kid a gun.
But taking them away from all of us isnt going to get the north side of Saint Louis or the south side of Chicago to just give them up this is what I don't get you think when they made method illegal it just disappeared? Can't find it anymore right?
This whole take the guns away stance is them brainwashing you into believing that they will do right once you don't have guns anymore.
They aren't raking them away from the police. They aren't taking them away from ice. And the IRS. Until they do that, fuck them I will have guns and I will suggest others do too. Just keep them away from your kids
First, where did I say anything about talking to the fascists? Or say anything about taking away people's guns? Seriously, I wonder who the hell you're arguing against, because it sure isn't me.
And yes, the regime is murdering people in the streets and breaking the economy. But only the parts of the economy that aren't propping up their regime. What do you think would happen if they could no longer find hotels for the ICE agents they send around the country to harass and murder people? If nobody would feed the agents or launder their uniforms? Or rent them cars? Or fly the airplanes needed to send kidnapped people to foreign countries?
Our strength as the masses is in our economic leverage. And it's about damned time we played to our strengths instead of trying to meet the enemy at theirs.
Can you tell me a single time in written history that an empire the size of the United States was toppled by the people without violence?
The world isn't a fairytale and I really wish it wasn't that way either but acting like it isn't won't help.
First please list off the characteristics of the United States' size that makes it immune to the forces that brought about other nonviolent revolutions. I'll wait.
There are some that gained independence so that's fair you're right.
The soviet union singing revolution ones were probably the most comparable I'd guess as far as size goes. But half of the soviet union starving at the time, which makes for an easier revolution when your government is incompetent and already being dissolved slowly inside of itself.
Same with Britain during ghandi, they were in the middle of WW2 and forced the Indian people into it and thats what made the calls for independence even stronger and being in the middle of a world war they were just tired of dealing with it.
So sure, if you're government is already in the middle of giving up hunger strikes and singing national anthems together can get the job done.
Resisting US government control as it stands right now is more akin to Rome or Myanmar with how it will play out.
Also as far as size goes: more size = more people but also equals more cops, more mitary, more federal agents, etc.
Britain didn't have an entire portion of the country full of forces who lived there ready to jump when Ghandi was doing hunger strikes. But boy oh boy, the USA sure the fuck does and doesn't care if it would kill every single last one of us.
On the subject of starving, we're of course not there yet (at the same scale). But have you seen what's going on in this country with affordability under this regime? Things on that front aren't really going in a favorable direction...
But I think your broader point is that there were often "mitigating" factors coincident with any nonviolent revolution in history then helped nudge it along, and with that I would agree. The question for us is whether any such factors (maybe ones specific to our country instead of specific to these past revolutions) are either present here now or about to be present here.
I will pick on your point about more size equaling more cops, etc. The U.S. is one of the biggest countries by area, but it ranks below South Korea, Iran, and Lithuania for police officers per capita. In fact, I'd argue that because of its size, there just aren't enough police to patrol the entire area of the country.
Now on the subject of military and federal agents, it's a different story of course. But that's where we get back to strengths and weaknesses. I'm advocating that we don't mount an armed revolution in part because the U.S. government is so incredibly armed to the teeth. That's their strength. But when people are boycotting businesses or refusing to work or engaging in work slowdowns or any number of other non-violent tactics... How does a giant military do anything against that—without losing any scraps of support it still has? We are taking their strength, and making it useless against us.
And how does that gun protect you against the masked thugs? They are cops and hence, I assume, you cannot legally shoot them when they enter your home. So resistance is useless? As a non-US - american, correct me if I'm wrong here.
My gun doesn't protect me. My gun protects you. Your gun protects me.
That sounds like a great bumper sticker for an NRA-meeting, but how does that actually apply?
I, also, cannot shoot your home-intruder, which is also a cop. So my gun does shit against ICE too. Just like yours.
Though I admit, I'd love to have a gun at home for actual intruders. We must not, the robbers don't care (but probably aren't armed either)
If I'm not willing to stick my neck out to help you when they come to take you away, who the hell will be left to do the same for me when it's my turn?
Sure, you're absolutely right. Be the change you want to see in the world and all...
But you fail to tell me HOW i am supposed to help your ass not being taken by ICE? Shoot the whole bunch that came to get you? (i assume those fuckers never come alone). And then other cops will take me for doing that after you are already gone? Threaten them with a gun will probably get ME killed. So what good does a gun do to anyone in that scenario?
Wow. How’s that gun ownership working against the fascist takeover of the US?
It isn’t?
Gun ownership has, in fact, been usurped by fascists and their supporters in furtherance of the takeover?
Next argument, please.
Oh yeah, and all yours 1.2 guns per person are doing absolute wonders right now, when you pedo in charge is rounding up people to put in concentration camps and starting wars all over the world. All your guns will start working any time now, liberating you from fascism.
The utility of gun rights as a potential defense against tyranny isn't proven to be zero by the existence of tyranny, because guns are not a complete solution. I think it's likely they would be rounding up more people by now, with less expense and difficulty, if Americans didn't have guns.
This is the same circular reasoning, with the added bonus of "all the countrepoints are actually points in my favour because I would like it to be so".
The reason they are able to be so aggressive, the reason they're so militarised, the reason they start interaction with people guns first is because they have an excuse of "well, everyone can be armed, we need to be prepared". And now they used it to build an army against you, that you can't do anything about.
You let them do it, thinking you can stop them using guns somehow, when the time comes, not realising that the time came long ago and you were very busy stroking your guns and killing each other to notice.
It would have already crumbled to the ground in the 1900's if we didn't have them.
The US government cares only about money. They don't give a fuck about us, as evidenced by our healthcare system.
We are expendable to them. Had we not have the guns we have now I truly believe it would have all ended for us a lot sooner and be significantly worse than it is now.
I know other countries manage. Other countries aren't managed by a bunch of rich pedophiles that will let children and people die for the sake of "saving" $50 on an insurance claim.
Tell you what how about this, how about they take the guns from the police and ice and IRS and dea and atf and then we can sure talk about getting rid of our guns. But that will never ever happen.
Remind me, what exactly did you do with your guns in the 1900s to prevent tyranny? I don't remember any armed uprising against a dictator in 1900s.
If you weren't so busy running around shooting each other with your precious guns, you might be able to see the depths your country fell into and maybe do something about it, but you didn't, because you were hoping that when "the tyrant" comes you can just shoot him with your trusty remmington, but when tyrant comes, you only cheer him on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
Granted though, most of them happened during the 1800's I Will admit that your Whiskey Rebellions and what not.
But had those things not happened before and even the flex of the muscles in '46 I'm telling you we would have been one of the most oppressive shitholes ever around already.
And also the thing is, we straight up wouldn't even be an independent nation had we not had guns to fight the british so having guns is literally why we exist as an independent nation to begin with.
And see that's where youre wrong, I do see the depths it has slid into and that is why I am going to have a gun here. Its easy not to when you don't live near a major metropolitan city that has insane crime around every corner.
You see I think about the way things actually work, in practice not just on paper. And I know by using that thought process that when they "take guns" every gang member and drug dealer is still going to have one all that would do is make it to where normal people with children can't protect themselves against criminals with guns anymore.
That's the true reason they haven't gotten rid of them yet. The government here no longer wants you to have them but they know that by banning them only the worst of the worst will have them and frankly even just the cops here having them and not the people make me nervous because they kill us all the time already, with zero remorse or consequences of any kind.
If the DEA can't stop drugs from entering the ATF isn't stopping guns from entering and that's just facts. Only criminals will be able to get them then just like only criminals can get drugs now. People can call you gun nut or whatever but that is just cold hard facts man and I'm sorry that its true.
A "well armed militia" that is completely and willingly surveiled by private corporations that work with the government is fundamentally, critically impaired.
The fact gun nuts harp on about what is, at this point, a fantasy of rising against tyrannical government while being nearly completely blind to operational matters like communication, organisation, surveillance, etc. is frankly ridiculous.
If these people were serious about this, they'd be building infrastructure, communication systems, etc.
I agree communication and organization are key as well and I try to make that point to everyone I can. I try not to be too preachy about it but any chance I get to talk about Meshnetworks and E2E encryption I make sure to let people know it is the way.
Two things can be true at the same time, though. Organization is key but so is an effective way to defend yourself. And if necessary, kill those who are trying to kill you and the people you have organized.
I asked another guy this too but consider that nowhere in the history of humanity has any society ever overthrown an empire/government the size of the United States without many, many deaths and a lot of violence.
So you can call me a gun nut but if you want to talk about fantasy, let's talk about how peaceful solutions don't ever fucking work to get rid of oppressive governments. Literally, never. Not one single time in the history of humanity. Maybe like some small island nation or something but talking about your Roman Empires and your French Monarchy's.
So at the end of the day dude your suggestion isn't grounded in reality. I'm sorry that its that way, I wish it wasn't either. But it is what it is.