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Gladly let the door kick them on the way out. Heard nothing but awful power tripping stories about them.
ICE is godawful and obviously worse. Both being gone would be great of course.
You hear the occasional story, but MILLIONS of people interact with TSA every day, and it goes perfectly smoothly. There is nothing like mind-numbing repetition to create a smooth flow. And when you do hear of a problem, it's almost always started by the passenger.
TSA workers are just hard-working Americans, doing a job that has to be done. Keep your animosity aimed at those at the top who really deserve it.
And ICE Apes. They really do suck.
Then why doesn’t it need to be done everywhere else? Why did it not need to be done for the first hundred years of commercial aviation?
Hang on, do these TSA kids not just check passports and that?
Nope, immigration checkpoints are handled by a different department.
TSA are just cops, and all cops are bastards.
But even if we ignore systemic issues with policing under capitalism, the fact remains that no, the job doesn’t have to be done, as evidenced by the fact that TSA fails penetration tests 90-95% of the time. They literally do not do the thing they were put in place to do, and nothing happens because of it. Terrorist attacks on planes are incredibly rare, and TSA does nothing to prevent them anyways. It’s all just theater to normalize law enforcement overreach.
They aren't cops, any more than the guy at the front gate into your neighborhood is a cop. They aren't trained, sworn law enforcement officers, they don't carry weapons, and they don't have arrest authority. I don't have a problem with those folks, until they start acting like they have cop authority, but that's pretty rare. Most of them just want a job where they just stand there.
The inspection system isn't perfect - NOTHING IS, and criticizing any massive system for not being perfect is disingenuous. Perhaps their presence is mostly theater, but it's useful theater. A major point of the system isn't just to catch threats from coming onto the plane, but discourage people from using the airports or airplanes for whatever nonsense they're planning. In fact, that may be the bigger point. In this era of mass shootings, we can attribute the fact that we haven't had a maniac shoot up a plane to the presence of TSA, and the entire inspection system, and thank them. Who knows how many incidents they discourage every day?
Finally, YOU said:
And why is that?
This reminds me of Trump whining that we had to abolish the Clean Air & Water Act, because our air and water is perfectly clean, this is just useless regulation. What it doesn't take into account was that when it started, our air and water quality was terrible due to decades of industrial pollution, leaded gas, and environmental neglect and abuse. That Act cleaned it all up, and had kept it clean. He just sees the successful result, and declares the law that accomplished it to be useless. You're doing the same thing with TSA.
Look at the number of hijackings before 9/11, compared to the number of hijackings since 9/11:
Airline hijackings, once relatively common, are rare today
Before TSA, hijackings and airport attacks were common, all over the world, finally culminating in 9/11. Since establishing the modern inspection system, we have not had a major incident like that since then. A couple of dipshits tried to light their shoes and underwear on fire, but both passengers and flight crews have adopted a different attitude, and beat the crap out of those guys, and TSA adjusted. Now we take our shoes off, and we get our naughty bits x-rayed. Some guy tried to sneak in water bottles with explosives, so now we can't have water bottles.
As for tiny shampoos, that has nothing to do with terrorism, just weight. You're going off for a long weekend, you don't need a giant bottle of every hair product you own. I don't want my plane going down because everyone had to bring a full 36 oz bottle of their backup hair conditioner, causing the front to fall off.
The system was planned and implemented, and has evolved to address emerging threats, and the result has been far fewer incidents both in-flight and in the airports, and that is a direct result of TSA and the program that they operate. There is the occasional publicized unpleasant incident, but they are an infinitesimal percentage of the enormous number of people that access air travel on a daily basis.
I don't worry about flying at all these days, but if TSA were to leave, I don't think I would fly anymore. I don't mind driving, I kind of like it, singing along loudly to my favorite music, and looking for little local BBQ joints along the way.
And nothing normalizes law enforcement overreach more than red light and speeding cameras.
Are you old enough to have flown before the security theater of TSA? Do you fly frequently enough to have witnessed the number of knives that get missed and taken on board flights and the number of nail clippers confiscated because they have a pointy file? Are you brown enough to have experienced a "random security screening" on the majority of your trips?
Have you had to deal with agents asking you what's in your bag and screaming at you not to touch it as if it contained a bomb that you're doing to activate? Oh no your toothpaste and USB charger overlapped in the x-ray and looked like an IED! Then they shove everything back in your bag so it doesn't close and tell you to move it so they can deal with the next suspect, and the only place to repack your bag is on a bench 15 feet away?
Have you traveled with children and had to have their water and formula manually checked for explosives? Have you had to disassemble you're stroller to put it through the x-ray, carrying your tired child while no one assists you, as you take your shoes off just in case you have a bomb in it?
Have you flown internationally and seen just how more convenient and friendly the security procedure is without TSA? Only to be reminded of it w on your return flight when TSA security screening happens at the gate after you go through the airport security? Random checks and luggage ruffling all over again.
Do you feel safer with the TSA "just doing their job"
Maybe these guys just like walking around the airport in their socks with their pants falling down? Don't forget swabbing down your laptop with the magic Q-tip.
My tax dollars feel so much safer with the TSA.
Yeah, I've done ALL of that (well, maybe not traveling while brown), but never so dramatically as you describe, nor have I ever witnessed it. ALL of your situations are greatly exaggerated, or were provoked. Nobody has EVER "screamed"at me about touching my bag, that's just silly. I've never seen anyone scream about anything in a baggage inspection line in my life.
These people are doing an endless busy boring job, and they generally do it standing up all day, so I don't doubt they don't have the greatest job satisfaction in the world. I don't expect them to kiss my ass for the privilege of serving me, just be professional and efficient, and they are always that.
I often travel with specialized equipment in my carryon, and I EXPECT it to be pulled out for inspection. I have definitely been inspected FAR more than most other passengers, and in fact, I am surprised when they don't. Sometimes I see them all gathered around the screen, peering and pointing, and I'll call over "You're probably gonna wanna inspect that," and they all turn to look at me, and then they pull it off the belt, and bring it over for inspection, but not always. I once asked why NOT one time, and an obviously very experienced agent told me what all the items were just from the X-ray. I told him I was impressed he was so accurate, and he just smiled.
Perhaps your TSA problems aren't with TSA, they're with you. They are always polite and understanding when they inspect my bag, and let ME re-pack it right there at the inspection station. Are they smiling? No, they tend to be stiff at first, because they are anticipating a passenger like you, but they relax when they see I hold no animosity for another American worker, just doing their job. I often walk away with both of us smiling, because I give them a rare moment during the day when they aren't under attack.
These TSA workers are our neighbors, our friends, even our family members. They are doing a difficult job, without a lot of pay, and people like you giving them a hard time all day, every day. If you aren't getting the TSA experience you think you should have, maybe try a friendlier approach. It also tends to succeed in a lot more circumstances than just airports.
America is in a weird place right now, and these government workers are stuck on the middle. They aren't responsible for anything, they're just a cog in the wheel, doing it for a paycheck. They are exactly like the rest of us. Our beef isn't with them, it's with the psychopaths at the top. Beating up on our working colleagues doesn't do anything but drive our collective morale even lower, and it isn't even satisfying.
Save your animosity for those who deserve it, and support ALL American workers. They're the Good Guys.
Your response to describing how I get random security screening the majority of my trips and how I have up take my child out of the stroller and lift it into the x-ray machine belt unassisted is to say the problem is me...
Once again, you aren't special. I've taken kids through airport security many times, and it's never been through ANY of the ordeal you describe. At least, I didn't treat it as an ordeal, just a normal trip through an airport. That's what it is, it's a different kind of place, and we have to adjust our behavior and expectations, in order to protect ourselves and everyone else.
Too bad if it means a little bit of inconvenience has to intrude on your precious, special existence. You obviously go through life expecting EVERYONE to accommodate to your demands for your life to be smooth as silk with no bumps. I live in the real world, where YOU aren't the center of my universe, or anyone else's, and nobody cares about your demands.
I can just picture you going through the line, huffing and puffing, and complaining about how long it is taking, and you don't have time to wait, yadda-yadda. I've seen your type in airports many many times. You ARE the problem, you drama queen.
I fly frequently and have never seen any of these scenarios. And wtf...a woman did try and bring an explosive liquid onto a flight in the early 2000s, it's why they have the liquids rule.
Fuck travellers and their outrage at mild inconvenience. The world is not safe, and if you don't like safety measures, please stay the fuck home.
But TSA fails at 90-95% of the tests against them. They do nothing to increase safety.
if all the security staff were to quit, nothing would change except flying would get more awful
if you don’t like it, blame the people making the process; not the people doing their best to get you onto your flight
unless you’d also like to be blamed for the decisions of those above you… perhaps you’d like to answer for the decisions of your countries leaders?
i’d guess you probably don’t think a countries citizens should be (entirely) responsible for the actions of its government, so perhaps try blaming the people responsible
Does it really have to be done though? The obnoxious security screenings don't make anybody safer.
https://ourworldindata.org/data-insights/airline-hijackings-once-relatively-common-are-rare-today
Yes, it really has to be done. We live in a world of mass shootings nearly every day. The only reason it hasn't happened in a plane is because of the post-9/11 security.
People don't understand that TSA's biggest impact isn't in stopping weapons from coming onto planes in the airport. All of that is just theater, and we are unwilling players, like it or not. The impact is at home, when a lunatic who want to kill a lot of people decides to not do it on an airplane because he'll probably never get through security, so he chooses a path of lesser resistance. Not great for that victim, but at least airport security eliminated against THEM.
Is it working? Who knows what's on the minds of suicidal terrorists, but after a long period of many hijackings, culminating in the worst in history on 9/11, there have been no major hijacks in America since TSA and enhanced security were implemented in American airports.
Hard to argue with results like that.
You’re conflating TSA with just putting a locked door at the front of the airplane. One of those was effective, and it was it the TSA. The TSA has an over 90% failure rate, by their own metrics.
This may be the stupidest argument I've ever had. You people are arguing like MAGAs.
Hundreds of hijackings before TSA, including 9/11. None in the 25 years since TSA and the new protocols. The system isn't perfect, but it's clearly worked, and even with it's imperfections, it's far better than NOTHING, which seems to be the only alternative suggestion.
I get it, air travel is a pain in the ass, and there is always a bit of a wait for the security screening. So what? We wait everywhere - the bank, the barber, the fast food drive through line, the grocery store, etc. Isn't spending some time in line worth not getting blown out of the sky?
Do you people actually think air travel will be SAFER without airport security? Because we had security before 9/11, and it still happened. Without any security, we'll go back to that 4 year period in the 70s when we had over 300 hijackings, more than one per week. That'll be fun, right?
I only made one point in my short post and you completely failed to address it.
Locked doors have stopped the hijackings, and those are already paid for. So why do we need TSA?
You think that locked cockpit doors are the ONLY thing keeping trouble from happening in the sky? What's to stop them from killing and torturing passengers, lighting fires, setting off bombs, etc.? All you really need to do is pierce a lithium battery, and you have 1000°C fire that is extremely difficult to extinguish. That will bring down a plane as surely as killing the pilot.
The locked cockpit door is the last line of defense. It's not a good idea to get rid of every other defense before that. It's pretty important to keep trouble off the plane in the first place.
I don't believe that for a second. If there were regular airplane hijackings before 9/11 we would have had that security already. TSA is there to invade people's privacy and be a jobs program, nothing more.
"Don't bother me with facts, my mind is made up."
Despite a mountain of evidence, easily available with a Google search, you just blurt out one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard.
Are you actually telling me that there were no hijackings before 9/11, and that any reports of hijackings are fabrications? Because that's an incredibly ignorant statement.
First of all, there WAS baggage inspections before 9/11, and people complained about it all the time. The videos of the 9/11 hijackers on that day ALL come from security cameras trained on the X-ray machines, and you can see plenty of people around them. It looks essentially the same as it does today. The security just wasn't as strong as it is now.
Pre-9/11, security was handled by private security companies, different ones in every airport in every city, and standards were inconsistent. Post 9/11, the government formed TSA to maintain consistent airport security around the country, and a few private security companies probably went out of business. Also, stricter training and protocols were implemented, and have evolved due to emerging threats like shoe bombs, underwear bombs, and water bottle bombs.
Now let's get into your primary assertion, which was that weren't any hijackings before 9/11. According to Wikipedia:
Then we had 9/11, the first time in history that an airplane had been used as a weapon of mass destruction.
So go ahead, Junior, and talk out your ass again how there wasn't any hijackings or airport security before 9/11.
While I agree that most TSA workers are just regular americans working a job... some of the replies to this are true. The failure rate is high. The TSA is not very effective at finding things. They surely do have some people power tripping because every organization that size does.
And I would not call TSA operations... smooth most days.
That said, most of the problems are due to management. Dumb things like inconsistent policies between airports, terrible line management, unclear instructions that seem to change back and forth even at the same airport. The general assumption that the passenger should already have all of thier rules and such memorized before they show up.
These are fixable things, but they won't be fixed. They don't hire people who think about improvements for management. That would cost too much.
And speaking of pay, are giving access to people's personal belongings to people they don't pay very well. Then they wonder why things go missing sometimes.
So, no, it isn't necessary at the level it is done. Some security sure. But it's ineffective overkill. That said, it isn't the individuals. So I don't don't wish them any ill will.
Still missing the point that catching threats at the airport is important, but not the biggest goal. The bigger goal is for the enormous baggage inspection bottleneck to intimidate anyone who is thinking about attacking a plane into not doing that.
And the simple fact that there have been no major hijackings since 9/11, proves that this strategy has worked. Now we have people saying that since we have no hijackings anymore, we should get rid of the very mechanism that makes that possible.
If you closed the baggage inspection lanes today, we would have a passenger airliner go down within a week.