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Uhhhh...
I don't quite know how to break it to you but:
There's no other way to use a nuke, they cover too wide an area.
Killing civilians was the norm in WW2, every war before that, and the vast majority of every war since.
Like, if the nukes on Japan wouldn't have been dropped, it would have had to be more firebombing and then a ground invasion.
Firebombings which still had a higher kill count in Japan than both nukes combined.
The entire point of a nuke, is that all it takes is a single one to wipe out entire square miles of a city. There's no way to do that without civilian casualties, and it's only a matter of time until one gets thru defenses.
However if you compare the nukes used in Japan to current nukes, they now cover a lot more than 1 city…
Yeah, and conventional attacks have also evolved past just dumping napalm from a balloon...
Or attaching small moltovs to bats and releasing them.
Like, nukes getting bigger is better as a dettertent.
That's the entire point of a deterrent.
Where we fucked up, is who we entrusted the buttons to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_nuclear_weapon
https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2023/08/07/atomic-bombing-japan-not-necessary/
Ah yes the Soviets were right about to checks notes start building an invasion fleet and beat the US in the race to Tokyo, thus checks notes again singlehandedly defeat fascism around the globe
That's some interesting alternative history you're reading there
Not sure what youre talking about, or how any of that follows.
The simple fact is that the notion that the US did not need to nuke Japan is a well-respected position among historians.
https://www.wagingpeace.org/were-the-atomic-bombings-necessary/
https://www.historyonthenet.com/reasons-against-dropping-the-atomic-bomb
https://jacobin.com/2023/08/atomic-nuclear-bomb-world-war-ii-soviet-japan-military-industrial-complex-lies
Of course, they could have chosen to spend several hundred thousand soldiers instead.
But I'm laughing harder at your other notion that the soviet ubermenschen were right about to swim across the Sea ofJapan and the US had to cheat to beat them there
Again, not sure what youre talking about, or how this follows. The only person bringing this idea is you.
Perhaps you need to check your le epic notes again.
Yeah must have been some other you that posted that the USSR was about to invade Japan
Uh, yeah. It was. You realize that imperial Japan expanded beyond the island, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria
Original claim:
Your rebuttal:
What are you even talking about?
Ah yes, first your source was claiming they'd "liberate Tokyo" but of course you only meant 'mainland China'
edit: to be more precise, it read like you're choking on 1945 USSR dick so much that it's hampering you from correctly understanding the equation for the 1945 US. It's gone so far that it's tickling your brain
They could be dialed down lower, but even a "small" tactical nuke is bigger than what got dropped on Japan.
It is not a "bunker buster" type of munition.
And I have no idea what you're second rambling source is trying to say.
It's not about size, it's how you use it. For example, a tactical nuke could potentially be used at sea to destroy a fleet. Depending on where the fleet is, this could potentially be done with no direct civilian casualties.
Really? It's pretty clear cut: the Americans dropped the nuke to primarily rule out Soviet influence as opposed to being a decisive means to end the war. This isn't even a fringe opinion among historians these days.
https://www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/atomic-bomb-hiroshima-nagasaki-justified-us-debate-bombs-death-toll-japan-how-many-died-nuclear/
Even if used "correctly", it can still cause significant collateral damage. I wouldn't normalize even the use of tactical nuclear weapons, as it's only one degree of separation away from use on civilian centers. I can see the justification now...."(insert group) terrorists have set up tunnels underneath the civilian population center! We must nuke the city!"
And huge environmental damage leading to indirect death and suffering at a wide scale...
No, that's from an opinion on a random website it doesn't prove anything, just tells you the authors opinion...
Your new one agrees with me at least:
But I didn't bother reading more than you quoted.
Genuine question: before today, had you ever heard of the take that the US didnt need to nuke Japan - given Soviet advancements and Japan's military crumbling?
Yep, anytime it comes up a shit ton of .ml accounts all keep insisting it wasn't necessary even tho the alternative would have caused more deaths and a shit ton more human suffering while ignoring that it fucking worked even when the Japanese government considered imprisoning the emperor to prevent him from surrending before the bombs were used.
That's what people don't get, Japan wasn't going to surrender. The military had seized control and would 100% continue fighting to the last person, the only thing that stopped them was showing that continuing to fight would leave all of Japan a barren rock.
The complete destruction of their island was the only thing that would have worked.
But as sure as I just said that, it's all hypotheticals and guesses, no one really knows how much it would have taken without nukes, but every indication is it would have taken a lot.
You don't know me so you would have no way of knowing this about me, but yes I am very familiar with all the tradeoffs and decision making in this part of WW2 around ground assault vs nukes and continued bombing etc 🙌
Another Godzilla connoisseur, I see.
You clearly believe so...
But that's not the impression one gets from the words you type.
✌️
I'd better not express what impression I'm getting from your words, dude.
I get paid a lot to be right and say it in ways powerful idiots understand.
Not having to be polite is a relief valve, but it doesn't mean the information is incorrect.
The smallest "tactical nuke" is orders of magnitude bigger than what was used in Japan and even at their lowest settings would snowball into environmental catastrophe.
You can't contain an atomic blast. Even what's left is irradiated and now nuclear waste. Especially any kind of metal, which is probably going to be whatever you nuke.
Being smaller just means idiots are more likely to use them.
Whoa you must be like so rich. How much do you make
Weird...
I thought the peace sign emoji meant you were done.
Well when an internet rando tells me how rich and influential they are then A) I immediately consider them super duper credible and serious, and B) I am simply desperate to know rich they are because oh my gosh they must be so glamorous
How directly civilians are targeted and how formally varies quite a bit, actually, even in ancient wars.