this post was submitted on 09 Mar 2026
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When will Westerners realize that the common characture of the brainwashed, thought controlled, information controlled, constantly surveiled citizen that we attribute to China/The USSR/etc... IS US?! You clutch your pearls at people in other countries potentially being treated like that but are inclined to do nothing about OUR countries treating US like that.
You can be against US and Chinese fascism simultaneously.
In what way is China fascist? It's a socialist country, public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy and the working classes control the state.
Authoritarianism, violent oppression of minorites and dissenting movements, deeply ingrained surveillance state with state censorship.
China does not violently oppress minorities, and wielding state authority, censorship, and surveilance against capitalists and fascists is necessary for a socialist state, and doesn't make it fascist. Fascism is capitalism violently defending itself from decay and solidifying bourgeois control, not proletarian.
Surveillance and political suppression for one. Media, journalism, etc.
That's not what fascism means, especially when these are used against capitalists most of all, and not against the working classes nearly as much. Fascism is capitalism violently entrenching itself when it finds itself in crisis, it isn't when a socialist state uses state power to keep capitalists under control and expropriate their property.
That's not what fascism is either lol
I wouldn't call china fascist, though doubtlessly authoritarian. But I don't have nearly as much info on china, it seems to me the persecution of minorities is less of a central political scapegoat and more some weird side thing. But without speaking chinese, I might be wrong. The US had plenty of fascist characteristics at this point and is rather open about the persecution.
I'm not trying to fuss over what to call something. My intended point stands.
It doesn't, though. Socialism is not fascism, and all socialist states need to exert authority against capitalists and fascists to continue to exist. Class harmony is a lie.
My point is that the forms of oppression that occur in China aren't exclusive to the capitalist class, and remain something I oppose.
Which stands.
But all of what you listed is used as a means to control the capitalist class, not as an arbitrary measure to oppress people. In your country, those same measures are used by the capitalist class against the working classes.
It does not stand because you rely on erasing vital context, that being which class uses it against which.
What are you even saying? Preventing independent journalism is oppressive towards the working class now? Censoring the media is oppressive towards the working class?
Letting private press say whatever they want in a country where capitalists would love to take over the state would be suicide. Capitalists have a muzzle placed on them. Legitimate criticism from the working classes is not censored, while misinformation and pro-capitalist speech is.
Capitalists and fascists should be censored. As for queer rights, they are improving over time, and the CPC does not actively oppose them, the most anti-LGBTQIA+ measures are taken by regional governments, not the central government. Many areas are more open and progressive.
See Chengdu for instance.
Great example. It's still not great, of course, and rural areas tend to be more socially conservative, but the positive forward movement does exist and is gradually improving over time. It's mostly the older generations that are more socially conservative, younger generations for example are more progressive socially too.
It really doesn't because you have no idea what you're talking about.
Just say you don't know what you're talking about.
Nice argument.
You didn't make one you just stated something wildly incorrect so why should I take the time to give you a well thought out response trying to explain how truly idiotic is?
I did make one, that you can oppose two things at the same time.
I could explain, but wait, you already said that authoritarianism was meaningless to you. If it doesn't matter to you, well, seems pointless to try to convince that it is actually fascist.
You have to be a troll.
Sure not what I took issue with. I took issue with you calling China fascist which is just an untrue statement.
Authoritarian is a pejorative. All countries and states in class society are "authoritarian" by necessity. Fascism is a specific thing arising from the tendency for the rate of profit to decline in capitalist society.
You can keep insisting I'm a troll if it helps you deal with not being able to engage with arguments.
China is authoritarian, but authoritarianism doesn't matter to you, so that shouldn't matter to you. Consistency, please.
And no, countries aren't "authoritarian" by necessity. Even if some amount of policies etc that would be considered such exist everywhere, you have countries that are freer and countries that have more political suppression, censorship of media outlets, etc etc.
China does censor it's media—political and entertainment— heavily. Just one small example.
How much Chinese media do you watch? How much time have you spent on Chinese social media? How fluent are you in Chinese? Or did you just get told this by other white people and decided to just go along with it because it confirms your biases.
https://www.equaldex.com/region/china
Please take a look through this page that elaborates on the oppression of queer people under the Chinese regime before you make any more personal attacks or assumptions about me. Just as an example.
Find a graph of these views over time, history is not a series of static snapshots. The PRC has been regularly improving with respect to queer rights and representation over time, showing no signs of stopping.
They're still banning TV shows/clips that feature queer stories or characters, there's been literal police raids where people have been asked to remove rainbow articles of clothing, rainbows are censored on TV. This is all very recent stuff within the past five years.
Idk man, seems like they're desperate to erase our existence if you ask me.
Even if it's not "as bad" as it once was, and if it "has potential", that's not where it is right now. Which is that it's an oppressive place for queer people right now, factually. Stop defending that.
China isn't the perfect haven free from all criticism that some people make it out to be.
I'm not defending repression, I'm pointing out that you're using queer identity as a club to beat a country that is steadily improving and showing no signs of slowing or stopping that growth. It's the same logic on your part that Zionists use to say queer advocates for Palestine are "defending homophobia." History and social progress exist as a progression of time, not as a static snapshot.
If you're not defending repression, then please call it what it is: repression.
I already have. Do you think history is a series of static snapshots, or something that moves over time?
I'm queer myself, of course I find the present level of queer rights in China to be insufficient. This isn't something that exists outside of the context of its own historical progression, though, which is why your argument is the same as those who use Palestinian queer rights as a reason queer people shouldn't support Palestine.
No, China is not perfect. It has real problems. What I am taking issue with is 2 of your major flaws:
Inventing issues with China, like calling it "fascist," a "dictatorship," or saying there's "Uyghur genocide."
Erasing real problems from their historical context and trajectories, making problems that are improving over time seem static and permanent.
These point to your chauvanism and dogmatism.
I'm not saying we shouldn't support China, I'm saying we should call it out for the BS that it does actually do, and not treat it like divinity beyond criticism. Every time I make any criticism of China, the responses are apologetic at best.
Those issues aren't "invented", but I won't go over those points again.
I didn't say it's permanent. It's common sense that everything is temporary. If you're reading that into my statements, that's on you.
Re: chauvanism and dogmatism. What was that thing you said earlier? Phrasemongering? Sounds like. I'll add one: hypocrisy.
Again, your criticisms are not constructive. They are either based on falsehoods, or are real problems analyzed metaphysically and thus unconstructive and incomplete criticisms.
They are, and I proved why. Acting like I didn't take them down and that you just don't want to revisit them is not an accurate picture.
It's common sense, but at the same time metaphysics permeates liberal thought processes. That's why we have to insist on a dialectical approach, one that views everything as a process. Looking at queer rights, for example, they are uneven at a national level, with some areas being better than others, and largely this is tied to development. China is rapidly developing and rapidly improving. While it's true that in this moment queer rights are not satisfactory, it's not as though queer rights today anywhere can truly be seen as satisfactory, not even in Cuba, if judged by future standards. That's why it's important to identify what's rising and what's dying away, as the US for example is getting worse on queer rights as China is getting better.
I mean both in your insistence on never believing a word a Chinese person says, and on your insistence to use metaphysics. I'm not hypocritical at all here, nor am I phrasemongering, nor dogmatic nor chauvanistic. I'm certainly insistent and confident though.
Your insistence on ignoring China's historical progression in queer rights and instead focusing only on the present. You don't view progress as a process, but instead as a snapshot. It's like looking exclusively at one point on a graph instead of at the trend line.
And these places will all be seen as horribly reactionary in the future, socially. That's why you need to look at progress as a process and not a snapshot.
No, I mean the mountains of sources I gave you from Chinese citizens explaining their system and why they support it. You deflected to Russia.
No, I am not. Please explain.
Probably because 90% of your "criticism" is just spreading lies.
Snowden showed they realized but didn't care
and the epstien files have shown us how little americans care about anything besides themselves.