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.world is full of apologists and denialists for western imperialism
.ml is full of tankies who think that ALL Americans are fascists (even those of us currently being terrorized by fascists).
FSM help you if you ever try to inject sanity into one of their "debates"
finally a both sides argument I can get behind !
☝️
We don't think every single statesian is a fascist, but we do recognize that much of the statesian public is fascist along with the state. The US is a settler-colony, after all.
Obviously I'm generalizing and don't think everyone on either instance is such a simplistic thinker. But I've been on the receiving end of plenty of insults from .ml accounts implying that ALL Americans are indistinguishable from Jefferson Davis.
I genuinely have not seen that, perhaps we interpret the same comments different ways?
Perhaps.
Side note - you don't deserve all this down voting. You're engaging in good faith and making reasonable statements (more reasonable than my initial comment deserved, frankly). Its unfortunate that attempting to bring nuance to an online discussion usually results in hateful backlash. That's not a .ml or .world problem. Just an Internet problem.
Thanks, but no worries, I'm used to it. I have some severely dedicated haters. I just wish that they would actually try to respond to what they downvote, rather than silently downvote, as there's no learning process created by that. Or when they run off to anti-communist drama communities (usually removing vital context), rather than directly addressing what I have to say.
Then you must be doing something right.
I don't like the line of logic that states "getting hate = correct," but I do think people should have who their haters are be factored in. Many people are rightly hated, like Netanyahu, but largely by entirely reasonable people.
But thanks for the compliment!
Also, I respect your insistence on using a term other than American to describe people from the US.
Growing up in the US, calling ourselves American is a hard habit to break, but I recognize how dismissive and insulting it is to the rest of the people living in North and South America.
Because no one else belongs to a state and so calling ourselves "statesians" is therefore better?
Its not a perfect term. Changing language is difficult and messy.
Do you have suggestions for something better (not meant to be snarky, I genuinely would like to find a good alternative and I bet cowbee would like input as well)?
Usonian is another term I've heard, but it sounds even worse.
It's not quite as easily understood as statesian or usonian, but I quite like what Erika3sis uses: Seppo
What's the background in that one?
Actually, by this chart, seppos are those materially aligned with the hegemony, and she also uses usonians and americans.
Ah, understood! Yea, seppo seems like a term for labor aristocrat.
It's interesting, in Puerto Rico I've often heard the term "North Americans" used to refer to inhabitants of the 50 states, even though North America is a region that includes other countries and even PR itself.
Yep, thanks! I'm a Statesian myself, and see settler-colonialism as the primary contradiction domestically. Calling myself an "American" is, as you said, dismissive and insulting to the rest of the Americas, most of which aren't settler-colonies.
All of America's are settler colonies. Or are they not to you because they are not White.
Much of latin and south America are predominantly indigenous, whereas the USA and Canada in particular wiped out the vast majority of the indigenous populations. Mexicans, for example, are largely a mix of Spanish and indigenous, ie mestizo, with around 20% identifying as indigenous. This is in stark contrast to the US and Canada.
Just my own perspective, but I don't think it's really accurate to say that latinos of mixed descent always stop being settlers. Some are indigenous as you say, but I think most of us still count as settlers. We definitely aren't indigenous (except in the context of the colonial relationship between our countries and the imperial core) in the strict political sense, and we live in (predominantly) unceded territory.
It's definitely a contested subject, and I have the "benefit" of falling squarely into undisputed settler territory so there's no ambiguity. This is just the perspective I have heard so far on the subject, I know mestizo aren't indigenous directly but it's not the same as the sheer obliteration of indigenous populations at mass scale as in Canada and the US. I still support indigenous movements throughout south and latin America, of course, as I do in the US/Canada.
I'd also like to add that, as far as I know, USA (and to a lesser extent Canada) are the only two states in the Americas that are still actively colonizing other places, including other parts of the Americas.
Yep, that's also true!
Almost no one is apologizing for what the west does. We just can't see any difference between china and the west when it comes to imperialism. Tibet comes to mind and the fact they want to pick the next dali lama. Like its their imperialists right. They have done the same things that the west has done and done them in this century. Tankies just insist on their lies knowing what they say isn't true.
The PRC isn't imperialist, though. For example, BRI isn't imperialist, because it results in mutual development. Where the west goes in and plunders and underdevelops the global south, countries in BRI see rising wages and industrialization, escaping the endless trap of imperialism. Does China benefit too? Absolutely. Is it imperialism? No. Here are some good articles:
Five Imperialist Myths About China's Role in Africa
China debt trap? PH an 'expert in bad loans,' Locsin says
Deborah Brautigam Debunks the Chinese Debt Trap Theory in New Research Paper
China's Debt Relief for Africa: Emerging Deliberations
Is China doing colonialism in Africa?
Instead, Imperialism is characterized by the following:
-The presence of monopolies which play a decisive role in economic life.
-The merging of bank capital with industrial capital into finance capital controlled by a financial oligarchy.
-The export of capital as distinguished from the simple export of commodities.
-The formation of international monopolist capitalist associations (cartels) and multinational corporations.
-The domination and exploitation of other countries by militaristic imperialist powers, now through neocolonialism.
-The territorial division of the whole world among the biggest capitalist powers.
The global north, Europe and the US included, uses this export of capital to super-exploit foreign labor for super-profits. It also engages in unequal exchange, where the global south is prevented from moving up the value chain in production, allowing the global north to charge monopoly prices for commodities produced in the same labor hours.
The point I am making isn’t simply about land conquering, but an ongoing process of shifting surplus value and resources from the imperialized to the core. Finance capital is the primary mechanism by which this functions.
As for Tibet, Tibet was a feudal slave society backed by the CIA. The PLA liberated Tibet.
Two exerpts from Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth:
CW: descriptions of torture
Selection two, shorter: (CW sexual violence and mutilation)
-Dr. Michael Parenti
Tibet is no longer under such a tortured regime, and has since seen skyrocketing quality of life metrics like life expectancy, industrialization, and more. The west uses the narrative of "oppression" as though the working classes of Tibet want to return to such brutal conditions, but in reality it's the former aristocracy and the Dalai Lama that wish to return to their positions as a ruling class.
Ukraine.
As in supporting Ukraine or supporting Russia? Because those are the two sides and only 1 is responsible for the war and trying to take land by military force. Doesn't get much more imperialist than that.