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But that's not what you said, is it? You asserted that the data you shared covered the first year of Trumps second term.
Why did you provide it as a source for your claim when it doesn't actually include what you said it includes?
You're right, I did. I saw fiscal year 2025, and I assumed it actually showed fy25. Fiscal year apparently means something different in Ohio as well :/ But in fairness, if we're gonna go after my goalposting, can we at least answer my first questions as well. How many ICE deportations were there under Biden, and how many deaths in ICE custody were there under Biden.
You provided the answer to that question, so we should be all set. Next in the order is your claim that there were more under Biden than under Trump. What is your evidence of that?
Sec, that one I'm sure of as I've seen the data going back to trumps first term. Just gotta remember what to Google :/
To be clear, the implication of your assertion that the 2025 data was there was that it proved that it was higher under Biden than it is currently under Trump. Why did you make that assertion?
I was thinking of comparing to trumps first term. Though I did assume fiscal year 25 actually meant that it was proving fiscal year 25(again, apparently different meaning in Ohio) so I did kinda compare it to Trump so far, but it's also hard to argue against me there, as there isn't data on that, just speculation. And holy crap, even what I'm looking for now isn't easy to find. Every place mentions how Biden deported more, records were set under Biden, and how Title 42 played a huge role in everything, basically a catch and release on same day as illegal crossing. The charts I'm finding do provide info I'm looking for, but there's a ton of * too, mostly title 42. AI always gives me the right answers, but I hate using that as source, and I don't know how to use AI effectively to get where it's getting its info from.
To be clear, no you didn't. Not even "kinda". The data you provided doesn't include any data from 2025 at all.
Every place? So share a few.
Share those charts.
Share the answers it's giving. It won't count as a source, but I'm skeptical that AI is even giving you that information.
Again, don't come after me for any of these sources. They're just my first couple search results. https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-deportations-illegal-immigrants-trump-biden-lindsey-graham-1998758 https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116859/documents/HHRG-118-GO06-20240215-SD013.pdf The AI answer Joe Biden's administration has overseen more deportations and repatriations than Donald Trump's first term. Data from the Department of Homeland Security shows that by July 2024, the Biden administration had carried out 4,677,460 removals, surpassing the 2,001,280 deportations during Trump’s first term. Another report states that Biden deported 4.44 million individuals in 2021 and 2022 alone, exceeding Trump’s first-term total of 3.13 million.
A key factor in the higher numbers under Biden is the use of Title 42, a pandemic-era policy that allowed for rapid expulsions of migrants without formal deportation proceedings; over 2.8 million expulsions occurred under this policy, mostly during Biden’s tenure. Critics note that many of Biden’s removals consist of “voluntary returns” at the border, leading some to label him the “returner-in-chief,” whereas Trump focused more on interior enforcement, though his overall numbers were lower.
Additionally, fiscal year data shows that deportations under Biden, particularly in FY 2023 and early FY 2024, outpaced those of any single year under Trump. While Trump promised large-scale deportations, the data indicates that Biden has overseen a greater number of removals and repatriations overall.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1gbdxut/oc_deportations_and_total_cases_under_us/ https://www.reddit.com/r/charts/comments/1nt8on8/us_deportations_by_year_and_political_party/ I gotta go play some drunk Mario kart though, don't think I'm abandoning the discussion, I was supposed to leave like an hour ago but stuck around for that reason :/
I'm parsing through this, but I think it's worth establishing where the goalposts even are at this point.
You're clearly going for a gotcha here, so help me understand what the gotcha even is.
Is deportation inherently bad? What is a "good" number of deportations?
Let's even just assume you're correct, why would Biden having a higher number of deportations inherently be worse?
The gatcha is that electing a democrat like Biden or Harris won't solve the issue, at best it'll the same on deportations/deaths from ICE. More likely, deportations would be higher, with not much less of ICE deaths. So when someone said that it wouldn't be this way, it's fun to pop peoples bubbles and show them the specifics without the narrative. I'm not saying it would be worse or better, just pointing out that electing someone with higher deportation numbers won't stop deportations, electing someone that drops more bombs on Muslim countries, and starts more wars, won't end wars, and someone that raises more, even twice more, corporate money for their election won't get corporate money out of politics. Yes I know, goal boasts blah blah, not the subjects, whatever.
The issue of unidentified masked men being emboldened to violently kidnap and disappear people off the street? You're really gonna pretend this incident would have happened under Biden or Harris? That's beyond absurd.
And as I asked you already, so what? Why is the raw number of deportations the gotcha? Do you not understand that isn't at all what people are complaining about?
Because that is exactly the point I'm trying to make. At least 26 people have died in Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) custody during the Biden administration. This figure includes 12 deaths recorded in fiscal year 2024 alone, which was the deadliest year under his presidency. The number of deaths has increased significantly in recent years, with the first three years of Biden’s administration seeing no more than four deaths per year, but a sharp rise to 12 in 2024. Despite this, the overall death rate per detainee is lower due to the record-high number of immigrants currently detained.
AI-generated answer. Please verify critical facts.
Prove it. And we're still waiting for you to prove your original claim too.
Are you ever going to provide any real evidence? Or are you just openly admitting you don't have any and you just believe whatever article comes up in a Google search, or whatever the hallucination machine spits out?
You also haven't answered my question, so I'm going to make it simpler for you.
What you're saying is that if under Trump, 100 illegals came in, and he violently deported 800 people by pulling them out of their cars, that's better than if under Biden 1000 illegals came in and he turned 900 of them away at the border.
Why do you believe that you be true?
Well, if I can't prove it to you with charts, articles, AI responses, and Google searches, what else could I do? I would've liked to provide you with the data from ICE themselves, but I can't make them release the data going back to 2003, or even 2025.
Why are you pretending you've provided any charts? I've been hounding you for data and you haven't produced any. Give me some charts!
Which is another way of saying that you're spreading baseless claims. Why are you doing that?
Also why are you refusing to answer the question? Why is a higher number of deportations inherently worse?
Did I link those articles, the charts, and the AI answer to someone else?
Maybe? You haven't linked me a single set of data apart from the ICE data that only covers Biden years.
But again, I can just grant you that Biden's deportation numbers were higher. Let's assume it's true.
Can you answer the question please?
What you’re saying is that if under Trump, 100 illegals came in, and he violently deported 800 people by pulling them out of their cars, that’s better than if under Biden 1000 illegals came in and he turned 900 of them away at the border.
Why do you believe that you be true?
That's not the argument though. If under Trump, he deported 800 immigrants, biden/Obama deported 1200. And if 50 died in ICE custody under Trump, 20 would die under Biden.
I'll start with the simple one:
Sounds like we agree that Trump is worse in that category, then.
We can use those numbers if you like:
What you’re saying is that if under Trump, 100 illegals came in, and he violently deported 800 people by pulling them out of their cars, that’s better than if under Biden 1000 illegals came in and he turned 900 of them away at the border, and sent another 300 back who had lived in the US for a year.
Why do you believe that you be true?
Feel like we're long past getting anything out of this conversation. So as other instances like to say, I disengage.
Really? Are you not at all ashamed of yourself here? Just gonna keep on spreading blatantly baseless claims?
To recap:
And then despite all that, even when I just granted you that everything you say is true and gave you the ultimate out, you still can't explain why higher number = bad.
Anyone with an ounce of decency would have taken the L and admitted they were wrong ages ago. I'm baffled by what motivates you to just gaslight and pivot like this.
Disengage indeed. You never should have engaged in the first place if you are truly too incompetent to even read your own sources.
Please grow a spine.
Now I’m just simple country folk but this is different than the picture you paint.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2026/jan/04/ice-2025-deaths-timeline#%3A%7E%3Atext=Thirty-two+people+died+in%2Cthe+US+recently%2C+seeking+asylum.
I never said there more deaths under Biden, just that there were more than 0, also with data that shows his peak was in 24, like it does in your graph.
Biden was president in 2025?
No, I said 24, and it was HIS peak.
Biden's peak being quite a bit lower then Trump 1 or Trump 2 (so far?)
Never claimed Biden’s death rates were higher, just that it was more than 0 and that 24 was his peak. I did say the deportations were higher for Biden and Obama though. Though I'm now seeing that there isn't actual data for year 2025, just speculations.
I sent you actual data.
Not to pile on, but uh... I can assure you, as a life long Ohio native, "fiscal year" means the same thing here as it does everywhere else
See, I though the same thing! Seriously, look into it. In Ohio, and some other places in country, it's July to June, while others it's October to September.