The expectation you're gonna brake that lifelong inertia with a simple logical argument when everything else in the world is telling them otherwise, isn't just naive, it's conceited as hell.

This is literally a huge portion of the author's point. Also, consider that this seems to be in contradiction with the insinuation of:

it reads like someone that just can't imagine that their logical well thought arguments aren't taken seriously

Because right there you explain why a logical argument (or evidence, etc.) might not be taken seriously.

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 12 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The point of the article, I think, isn't that people are not propagandized, it's that part of the reason they don't reject that propaganda is that they recognize on some level that it benefits them.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I understand that, but I was considering the propaganda to be under the umbrella of the maintenance of the aforementioned "lifelong inertia".

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

To clarify, I was agreeing with you. Sorry, I realize that wasn't clear in my reply.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

heart-sickle

[–] LeninWeave@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago

heart-sickle Another KKKommuniKKKation KKKlarified, unlimited clear and deliberate discourse on the Hex Bear.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This is literally a huge portion of the author's point

Well that's great, but I wouldn't know, I can't get through it! doggirl-gloom tbh, it's like I'm reading a complaint by this guy. bazinga

My opinion of it is also not helped that it seems like it often gets shared as a reason why convincing people can't ever be done in the imperial core and thus no other tactic should be tried. But that's not the authors fault I know, just my impression.🤷 It's never here's what we should try instead, it's always brainwashing isn't real, here's a link.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Well that's great, but I wouldn't know, I can't get through it!

If you want to speak in terms of a text you're probably more familiar with, what does "no investigation" entail?

My opinion of it is also not helped that it seems like it often gets shared as a reason why convincing people can't ever be done in the imperial core and thus no other tactic should be tried

I'm easily one of the biggest proponents of the essay, but my point in discussing it most of the time is to fight against misanthropic ideas about the people being "sheeple" or whatever that are fundamentally sub-rational, and instead that we simply need to engage on a more empathetic basis, trying to understand why people believe what they do in order to find more constructive ways of engaging with them.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

If you want to speak in terms of a text you're probably more familiar with, what does "no investigation" entail?

Yeah no shit. As I've said I've attempted reading this multiple times.

I'm easily one of the biggest proponents of the essay, but my point in discussing it most of the time is to fight against misanthropic ideas about the people being "sheeple" or whatever that are fundamentally sub-rational, and instead that we simply need to engage on a more empathetic basis, trying to understand why people believe what they do in order to find more constructive ways of engaging with them.

And that sounds like a better discussion that puts it in a better light, but I've never seen it happen.🤷 Matter of fact, I would say the opposite typically happens and the argument instead becomes something closer the hopelessness of reaching labor aristocracy or some shit.

[–] into_highest_invite@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 3 months ago

it's not that you can't reach the labor aristocracy, it's that a lot of them have a visceral reaction to arguments against western propaganda that means they refuse to hear or consider what you have to say. i know i've done it before. the article explains why

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

And that sounds like a better discussion that puts it in a better light, but I've never seen it happen.🤷 Matter of fact, I would say the opposite typically happens and the argument instead becomes something closer the hopelessness of reaching labor aristocracy or some shit.

The issue is that not having empathy and trying to go about these discussions in an overly "academic" manner is usually pretty worthless outside of niche cases where you've basically just gotten lucky because the other person was in a place to have that kind of discussion. Obviously there are some doomer third worldists on the board, but I've never agreed with them and if you read even 8 - 9 paragraphs into the essay, the author explicitly does not either.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 5 points 3 months ago

Heard. I'll try to keep that in mind on my next attempt. Whenever the hell that is. Lol. thanks.