this post was submitted on 31 Dec 2025
152 points (88.8% liked)
Flippanarchy
1877 readers
32 users here now
Flippant Anarchism. A lighter take on social criticism with the aim of agitation.
Post humorous takes on capitalism and the states which prop it up. Memes, shitposting, screenshots of humorous good takes, discussions making fun of some reactionary online, it all works.
This community is anarchist-flavored. Reactionary takes won't be tolerated.
Don't take yourselves too seriously. Serious posts go to !anarchism@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Rules
-
If you post images with text, endeavour to provide the alt-text
-
If the image is a crosspost from an OP, Provide the source.
-
Absolutely no right-wing jokes. This includes "Anarcho"-Capitalist concepts.
-
Absolutely no redfash jokes. This includes anything that props up the capitalist ruling classes pretending to be communists.
-
No bigotry whatsoever. See instance rules.
-
This is an anarchist comm. You don't have to be an anarchist to post, but you should at least understand what anarchism actually is. We're not here to educate you.
-
No shaming people for being anti-electoralism. This should be obvious from the above point but apparently we need to make it obvious to the turbolibs who can't control themselves. You have the rest of lemmy to moralize.
Join the matrix room for some real-time discussion.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Can it? When in history has that ever actually worked?
Well, to be fair, Islamic resistance groups (not ideologically communist but progressive) have recently developed cells and flexible leadership methods which are sustainable and relatively successful. This is not what anarchist are usually referring to, though, because that still works strictly in a heirarchical structure and wields state power (good)
It worked in Revolutionary Catalonia for one.
They lasted less than a year before they were destroyed by nationalist forces.
They were still sustainable. The same thing is going to happen to any startup anarchist collective as nations and corporations hold an ungodly amount of power and material wealth. It was destroyed because it was actually working but couldn't defend itself completely from a nation. That is a flaw but its one any up and coming revolution starts with.
Damn, I wonder if there’s anything they could have done to address this problem
Idk seems like they were already a collective. Do you think adding a figurehead or singular leader would have stopped the establishment government from using their already existing material wealth to crush dissent?
You mean Lluis Companys right?
And therein lies the problem. I'm not questioning that it was sustainable, but without centralized leadership and the use of force to protect itself, any anarchist cell is going to lose to the much more organized and better equipped capitalist forces aiming to disrupt and overturn them. Anarchist projects cannot be successful while capitalists continue to wield power.
I can agree with that. I dont think the human zeitgeist is really ready for decentralized governance at this point in time. Thats why the path currently has to start with socialism > communism > stateless.
Is communism not stateless tho?
I haven't read enough theory. Wheres cowbee?
To try to answer your question; yes, I believe the original intention would call for a dissolution of the state if successful.
So I'd say communists and anarchists should be besties.
Philosophically I'm an anarchist, so pragmatically I'm a communist, and currently I'm a socialist [that supports Actually Existing Socialism].
This is what gets called 'red fash tankie' by western chauvinists claiming to be leftists.
People in the west are shrouded (including me) by the most effectice propaganda bubble ever. We hold fault but at the same time the powers that be need us workers of the world to fight each other and not see that we are all more alike than different. They need that. Thats where the "NAGO anarchist", "tanky", and all the other pejoratives spawn from. If they didnt do it we'd have banded together a long time ago and toppled them
Depends on what your time frame is and what you consider a state. Anarchists tend to analyze states as unjustifiable hierarchies entrenched through monopolies on violence, and that they form a "class" in and of themselves. Marxists analyze class by its relation to production and distribution, as a social relation, and see the state as a result of class struggle for the purposes of oppressing other classes. What statelessness looks like, therefore, differs.
Anarchism is primarily about communalization of production. Marxism is primarily about collectivization of production.
When I say “communalization,” I mean anarchists propose horizontalist, decentralized cells, similar to early humanity’s cooperative production but with more interconnection and modern tech. When I say collectivization, I mean the unification of all of humanity into one system, where production and distribution is planned collectively to satisfy the needs of everyone as best as possible.
For anarchists, collectivized society still seems to retain the state, as some anarchists conflate administration with the state as it represents a hierarchy. For Marxists, this focus on communalism creates inter-cell class distinctions, as each cell only truly owns their own means of production, giving rise to class distinctions and thus states in the future.
For Marxists, socialism must have a state, a state can only wither with respect to how far along it has come in collectivizing production and therefore eliminating class. All states are authoritarian, but we cannot get rid of the state without erasing the foundations of the state: class society, and to do so we must collectivize production and distribution globally. Socialist states, where the working class wields its authority against capitalists and fascists, are the means by which this collectivization can actually happen, and are fully in-line with Marx’s beliefs. Communism as a stateless, classless, moneyless society is only possible post-socialism.
Abolishing the state overnight would not create the kind of society Marxists advocate for advancing towards, and if anything, would result in the resumption of competition and the resurgance of capitalism if Marx and Engels predictions are correct.
Communism itself is not static either. It will have its own contradictions that resolve and propel it forward. Gradually, habit replaces more and more of what is already formalized by the state today, but it doesn't look like the communalist, decentralized cell formation anarchists propose.
I admire how clearly you can answer difficult questions and you general patience in explaining theory. I always learn something from your comments. Thank you for being part of this community and sticking around.
Thanks, comrade!
@Cowbee@hexbear.net or @Cowbee@lemmy.ml the bat signal has been lit
Roger!
The Bolsheviks defended themselves completely from 15.
Revolutionary Catalonia was not in any way a collection of independent anarchist cells. If you actually read the work of historians on Catalonia you'd realize that they had basically everything in terms of state apparatuses that someone like you would be ideologically opposed to, if you were consistent in your politics.
Workers couldn't even leave their villages without the permission of the village council in Revolutionary Catalonia my guy. I don't know how to tell you this but that sounds awfully like a repressive state doing what a repressive state does, even if it flies a black (and red) flag.
It didn't, considering how revolutionary Catalonia did not survive the war.
This is peak western leftism. Only supporting failed movements because they are able to remain "pure".
Crazy, I remember saying those words exactly, "I only support failed movements" was an actual comment that I made in those words.
Okay, so what AES states do you support?
I think all of Africa could benefit from an alliance like that. I like their freedom of movement initiatives but I fail to see how these are anarchist. It just looks like nations breaking away from western powers which in itself is a good thing.
While the Sahel states are a progressive nationalist movement overthrowing imperialism, they aren't AES in the same way BanMeFromPosting means. AES in socialist discourse usually stands for "Actually Existing Socialism," usually in reference to existing states where public ownership is principle and the working class in control of the state.
~~Are you a bot? Your answer is a complete non-sequitor. Or are you so uneducated you don't even know what AES is and you assume it has something to do with Africa?~~
Edit: My bad, you thought I talked about the Alliance of Sahel States for some reason?
What actually existing socialist states or anarchist communes do you consider to be "actually good" or whatever language you'd use
The Alliance of Sahel States, AES in French.
ⓘ This user is suspected of being a cat. Please report any suspicious behavior.
That makes sense for the weird non-sequitor, thanks. Still a headscratcher that the mind would go there instead of Actually Existing Socialism, but it's on me
Idk why thats weird. When I hear AES thats what I think of. I've never hesrd Actually Existing Socialism before.
Yet you act like an expert on the subject
I have mentioned multiple times in this thread that I am not lol but sorry I forgot I had to know everything to talk about anything. Its not okay otherwise.
You should take that to heart then, instead of acting like you do
To paraphrase the one true leftist on this site: Oh yeah, that's totally what I said. Yep I remember when I wrote that
You said AES. I was really confused.
Zapatistas are the only ones I am aware of with any real success
Oh hey neat I called it
Are you just trying to be a dick or did you want to talk about leftism? Cause if anyone is doing purity tests around here it seems to be you
What goes around comes around. You've made it very clear you're not interested in talking, so why would I try?
You're really helping me fill out my "liberal klichés" bingo card
Lol okay bud. I'm disengaging. No idea what you're on about.