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Just leave these animals to live their lives however they seem fit. Without unnecessary human interference. As we do have that option.
I.e. prohibit all hunted meats? Then say that. But this is not a practical solution.
Yes.
Start with prohibiting animal farming, then ban animal murder alltogether.
It is the only solution, it is not actually that difficult, and it is an inevitable outcome of human development.
In a few centuries, humans will look at today's animal explotation the same way we look at cannibalism and slavery.
Im always supriced how many people think huntings only reason is to kill the animalls and eat the carcasses.
There are many places where humans have killed the natural predators for some animals and in those places animal population is in danger to grow uncontrollably spreading disaeses and dangering natures balance even further. Herbivores without carnivores can and will destroy the forest floors and growth if let unchecked, wich can cascade to further destroy enviroment for different species like small mammals, bugs and birds.
Most obvious fix (and best for enviroment) would be introducing the big predators back in the area, wich is very easy to say when you live in a big city and your, children, pets or livelyhood is safe and sound. People dont want wolfs on their backyards any more than people want lions on the streets of NY. Also i dont see much difference for the animal if they get shot by a rifle or tearn down by a pack of predators.
Other solution for protecting the animals would be capturing and shipping hunted animals to wildlive reservois where they could live with the predators without any interactions with humans, but that would again leave the nature where they were transported from in a unbalanced state where for example plants like vines could spread suffocating other plants.
Then there are exotic animal trophy hunting that many people seem to hate. Most places that offer that have chosen the hunted animal preforehand. Like old male lion that are not fertile anymore, but still tries to kill other lions cubs, or elephant that has started to showing extreme aggression. With that money source safaries can fight against illegal poachers and protect endangered animals like black rhinos, while they keep the other animal population healthy. Those animals would need to be killed anyway and if somebody is willing to pay for doing it I dont see how that is bad.
I personally live in rural area. This year wolfs have killed few dogs and livestock like chickens from the yards of my neighbors. Do i wish all the wolfs to be killed? No. Do i wish childrens could walk or bike to school without fear of being attacked. Yes. I have also lost family in accident where moose ran in front of their car. I definedly dont wish for uncontrolled moose population making accidents like that more common.
But i agree with your sentiment that we need to move away from animal farming. Not because reason i personally find naive and childish like "cows are friends" but because its bad for enviroment and we as a humankind are eating meat in our meals more than we need.
What do you do with livestock animals that make up 62% of all mammals on Earth?
Stop forcefully reproducing them, sterilize as necessary, let them live out the rest of their lives. It's not too complicated.
sounds like you don't actually care about their autonomy.
I do care about the planet actually surviving this. We've created way too many animals, the natural ecosystems won't be able to sustain them all if we release them into the wild and let them reproduce. The outcome will be devastated ecosystems and a lot of animals dying due to starvation. Sterilization is the least inhumane way out of this mess.
oh. you're not vegan: you're ecofash.
That certainly would be an interesting civil war.
It doesn't even require a war.
Meat is heavily subsidized and benefits from economies of scale. Once enough people stop eating meat on their own, more people will follow suit because it will be too expensive.
It's one of the big reasons why there's such a huge cultural resistance to veganism. Meat abstinence will make meat more expensive for the ones who keep eating it, and of course cut into the profits of the shitty companies making it.
Try banning it (or pricing it out of existence) and you will get one.
some already do, but most people who have heard this argument are not convinced of it, so I doubt this is how things will turn out
I really don't think we'll ever stop eating animals. We've been doing it for hundreds of thousands of years, it's practically part of our DNA. Why would we stop now? Vegans haven't made a lot of progress convincing people, that's for sure
presumably there will be more suitable protein sources when space travel becomes a thing
We've done a lot of other awful things since forever: forced child "marriages" (or just sexual abuse before then), child exploitation, some form of slavery, have all been a thing for millenia. And yet many societies now frown upon those, punish the perpetrators and help the victims.
What makes you think this (or other awful shit we still do) will be any different?
All those actions are no more or less "in our DNA" then meat consumption.
And, well, vegans have convinced some non-trivial amount of people, as you can deduce by the fact that many companies put "vegan" stickers on their products, because they think it will increase their profits.
example, violence for entertainment. yes we've majorly turned against that which is good. child marriage, also good we got rid of that.
meat for food though, that is in our biology. our bodies need the nutrients that come from meat. we are biologically omnivores. yeah we can try to supplant that, but it's through an artificial means.
I'm all for it, but i don't think it's going to be frowned upon in the future and i don't think all humans can switch over to a plant based diet tomorrow. vegans are too much caught up in themselves to think of the practicality.
This is definitely false. You can live as a vegetarian (i.e. stop eating meat) without any supplemental nutrients.
If you wanna go vegan, you will need to supplement your diet with B12. That's the only nutrient that can't be found naturally in plant-based sources. TBH practically speaking, if you're in the west, you'll probably be fine nowadays, because most prefab vegan foods (incl. vegan milks) are enriched with B12.
I'm vegan, all I do is take a B12 pills weekly, and all my vitamin levels were fine last time I got a check. I could probably skip the pill if I went out to eat more, or bought more prefab food, but I mostly cook for myself and so don't get many B12-enriched foods.
Most humans live in cities nowadays, and all of those humans can easily switch to a plant-based diet within a couple of years (which would mostly be redirecting the supply chains for plant proteins from animal agriculture to humans directly). There are some edge-cases where people really do depend on animals (subsistence farming, hunter-gatherer societies, etc). We can deal with those later.
that's not true
Yes it is. Everything except B12 can either be found in some plant-based foods, or produced by your body. B12 is the only supplement you need.
you are spreading medical misinformation.
Yeah, I guess I'm not entirely accurate, because you can get some tiny amount of B12 from plant-based sources (e.g. nori). But it's probably not enough, so vegans should supplement it. The rest is probably fine unless you're blasting junk food every day.
I'm more concerned that you're asserting everything else is in plant based foods. it's not and you should stop lying to people before they hurt themselves.
no such thing.
Dont know if you're only referrung to lobsters or all animals but strictly speaking, humans are also animals and letting everyone live life as they see fit is already the default if you will. That includes letting people who want to cook lobsters do that
I guess you missed the human interference part in my previous message. And no, I am generally not okay with people cooking lobsters. Not only is it presently unnecessary for their survival or health, it harms the animal and the part of nature it has been taken out of. All that for a brief moment of joy, something that tastes good. Just leave these animals be, eat something else, with plant-based ingredients that harm the planet way less.