this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2025
79 points (94.4% liked)
memes
23597 readers
379 users here now
dank memes
Rules:
-
All posts must be memes and follow a general meme setup.
-
No unedited webcomics.
-
Someone saying something funny or cringe on twitter/tumblr/reddit/etc. is not a meme. Post that stuff in /c/slop
-
Va*sh posting is haram and will be removed.
-
Follow the code of conduct.
-
Tag OC at the end of your title and we'll probably pin it for a while if we see it.
-
Recent reposts might be removed.
-
No anti-natalism memes. See: Eco-fascism Primer
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments

I think polcomp as a format should just be abandoned because it's not helpful and, though you and I don't agree on some of the specifics, it's over 50% meme ideologies insofar as you can map it onto ideology at all (something "authleft" is especially resistant to).
I really think your Y axis here is the only highly-generalizable and systemic distinction that has any meaning, though of course I very strongly disagree with the characterization of Marxism as being ideologically less democratic than anarchism unless your claim is that republicanism itself is less democratic than direct democracy, which I think is a frivolous objection. If I had to choose, while I must accept of course that bureaucracy is anti-democratic and a consistent problem in various states that claim Marx, ideologically this has been recognized as a structural problem from the beginning by the Bolsheviks and others, meanwhile some types of anarchism actually do oppose democracy in the broadest sense on account of the decentralized personal rights type frameworks they have (while other types are no less democratic than Marxism, of course), which necessarily exists as a set of proposed limitations on the democratic will.
I basically agree with your placement of China, and your placement of Tito as more opposed to Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie than Lenin is ridiculous.
Edit: Thinking about it, I think one of those triangle charts where the points are "Democracy," "Capital," and "Bureaucracy" would do fine for mapping most meaningful political movements in the modern world, if one really insists on making these charts.
Edit 2: I just now noticed that "decentralized" control is part of the definition of democratic and that just isn't true. Such a thing being enforced above the popular will is necessarily counter to democracy. I also find it strange to make soviets as a positive example and then place Lenin where you did, though I also think soviets, while useful for revolutionary organizing, aren't necessarily the best system for having a maximally democratic government either.
I also am not really one for the idea of it being more democratic to have plural parties as opposed to resolving differences within one real party (along with the little interest group parties we see in China, the DPRK, etc.), but that argument always gives me a headache, maybe because "party" can be a slightly nebulous term in terms of what it actually means for enforcing a line.
I gotta agree, it really struggles to capture any nuance, rest assured this is meant to be a joke
Case in point: I kind of intended anything below 0 on the y axis to be broadly opposed to the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, while positive is in support of it. Then it was to be a measure of how much it is a proletarian dictatorship vs class society being abolished.
The issue I saw is that 'democracy' as an axis can mean so many different things, depending on the economic and political context. This is more an artifact of how rigid the template is. As you pointed out, it doesn't cleanly break one way or the other.
Tito should probably be on the same level all the same, I honestly wasn't thinking too hard and had him and Teto next to eachother at one point before re-arranging things.
Fair enough, I was basically just commenting because you invited feedback, though I'm sure you know that.
I think even that is being too nice to Tito, but I'll be more concerned if we get a Titoist contingent on the board.
Incidentally, I know she criticized the Bolsheviks quite severely in several respects, but did Luxemburg deny the need for a vanguard party altogether? I haven't read what she has to say on that.
from my understanding she was opposed to that type of centralization, from the organizational questions of the Russian social democracy:
she also talked about it in "The Russian Revolution" after they took power, chapter 5 + 6 were the relevant sections in that
no worries, it's welcome!