this post was submitted on 12 Nov 2025
267 points (100.0% liked)

History Memes

1016 readers
746 users here now

A place to share history memes!

Rules:

  1. No sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, assorted bigotry, etc.

  2. No fascism (including tankies/red fash), atrocity denial or apologia, etc.

  3. Tag NSFW pics as NSFW.

  4. Follow all Piefed.social rules.

Banner courtesy of @setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world

founded 6 months ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 61 points 2 days ago (5 children)

I dunno though, I kinda like the simpler form

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I don't get these translations. We don't use some of those words anymore. The only reason "doth" etc are used is to make it sounds old and more mysterious. It's a fucking translation though. Translate it using words in modern English. "Doth" went away with "thou" when it was replaced with singular "you." When "you" was plural, fine, but that hasn't been the case for centuries. The original author didn't write it that way. It's purely the choice of the translator.

(Potentially this is an old translation from back when those words were in use. It doesn't make it more accurate still though, just less understandable and relatable.)

[–] scrion@lemmy.world 38 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I'm with you, the "improved" translation is too verbose, tries to hard, and assumes that all poetry has to rhyme.

trying too hard is like, 95% of poetry

[–] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

I'll be in the opposing camp.

Paraphrasing the wiki article, poetry is about the "aesthetic and rhythmic qualities of language" being used to evoke meaning, beyond the surface level.

This is captured well in the "proper" translation, and while it definitely suffers from the use of archaic words, it does express the situation in a much more interesting way than the alternative "love phat ass but gurl can't move".

The same logic applies to the masterpiece "I love big butts and I cannot lie", which expresses the same affection for emphatic posteriors, but does so by making a distinctive use of the rhythmic characteristics of the language. Ie., MC Hammer is a proper poet (but the song is actually by Sir Mix-a-Lot, my mistake)

(Edit for typos and clarity)

[–] aaaa@piefed.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

MC Hammer is a proper poet.

I think that was actually Sir Mix-a-lot?

[–] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

You are absolutely correct, my bad. Fixed

[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 4 points 2 days ago

Nah, in the short version, I knew what he was talking about. The improved version was so incomprehensible, that I had no idea he was talking about her ass, which is apparently so enormous it makes it hard for her to even move.

[–] scrion@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Sure, rhythm, structure, even how the words are being printed on a page are used as poetic elements in modern poetry. Often, pure sound is used, meaningless, fictional words, decomposed elements of a given language, syllables.

But modern poetry has moved away from long standing, fixed rhyme schemes and meter. This, along with the use of anachrononistic language, gives the translation a dated feel. I'm aware of the age of the poem, but I don't feel the ultimate goal of a translation must always be perfect accuracy to the source material and its historical context. In fact, poetry often suffers from such endeavors.

[–] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

I agree with most of your points, but not the last one. I think it's perfectly OK to take an ancient work of poetry and produce a modern adaptation. This happens for many, many texts - where you can choose between a modern version that is easier to read and more "engaging" and relatable, or a more classical version where the translator tries to maintain the original nuance, structure, rhythm.

I don't know Arabic at all so I can't tell for sure, but the translation in the book just seems like a very poor attempt at translation, and so it fails as a modern adaptation, and fails as a "classical" translation. It's just bad. :)

[–] _stranger_@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago

She's clapping for two, got it.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

She got a big booty so I call her Big Booty

HEEEEEY BIG BOOTY

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Someone on Reddit said the term 'ردف' is used, which is apparently both 'buttocks' and 'follows', but I don't speak Arabic so I can't confirm which version is closer. Google Translate would seem to suggest that the original poster is closer (if still taking some translation liberties)

https://www.aldiwan.net/poem3706.html

[–] _stranger_@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

Sounds like English "behind" which means both as well