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Ah yes, the socialist utopia.
China is not a socialist utopia. The average Chinese person still has a better quality of life then the average American, because America is a capitalist hellhole.
Both are shitholes mate. If gay people don’t have rights, no one does. Let’s not get into a dick measuring contest, because you’re both looking pretty inverted right now.
Yes, if you are part of the mostly culturally homogeneous majority, hold no views that the state has arbitrarily determined are verboten, are not in some way part of the many groups that have been arbitrarily determined to be verboten (such as increasingly LGBT individuals), are fine with a leader who is set to rule for life, are not below a certain age and unable to get a job in the ruthless job market, live in a city rather than a rural village with poor future prospects, are fine with widespread surveillance in said city far beyond most of the West (UK might give them a run for their money here), are male, and so on, I'm sure it's a lovely place to live.
Using America as the example is just funny. Did I say anything about America being good? America is an utterly dysfunctional state. Ironically, it seems both the Chinese govt and Trump's admin agree that gay people shouldn't exist. Pretty sad given that things had been trending in a positive direction for LGBT people maybe 15 years ago in China.
Dude, I agreed with you, it's not a socialist utopia...
And we seem to agree that America is utterly dysfunctional, and the average American is worse off than the average Chinese.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to describe the average person, I wasn't defending China... I already agreed it's not a socialist utopia. It's a capitalist hellhole with remnants of socialism/communism that keep the average person housed and fed.
But in America today you can get arrested without due process and shipped to another country for being too brown, you can get thrown in jail for speaking against the genocide America is funding, and you don't even get housing or food or healthcare to show for it, just work until you die so the rich can get richer and you can leave your kids with a mortgage.
The average American is absolutely not worse off than the average Chinese. Though I will agree that the average Chinese is ironically happier than the average American.
Don’t get me wrong - Chinese live okay, even if they’re poor. There’s a strong sense of community, people get cheap and inexpensive goods, and outside of the tier 1 coastal cities, it’s super cheap. The walkability is excellent, and the metro and parks are world class. It’s safer. It’s cleaner. There’s few homeless people, and drug zombies are almost nonexistent.
But: American wages are much higher and the job situation in America is less bleak. Working in America is less brutal in terms of hours and expectations. There’s way less pollution, safety standards are higher. But it’s also a society with zero charity. It’s extremely “worry about yourself and maybe your family too but that’s it”. If you’re disabled, you’re fucked. If you can’t find work after 35 because of ageism, you’re fucked. It’s extremely Darwinian. And, for what it’s worth, it’s still Chinese hopping over the border illegally to live in America, not the other way around…
You would be wrong.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world
Self-reporting happiness might not be 100% accurate obviously (Finland #1 lol) but it seems like the best guess we have.
Given how many tankies are on Lemmy, it was really not obvious at all that you were agreeing with me as opposed to saying "ackshually it's not a utopia, but it's working on becoming one and America is shit for xyz reasons so you can't throw stones at China."
Well, the second part, yes. I'm responding to the "America good, China bad, ugg ugg" mentality.
Except I said literally nothing about America in the original comment. I feel like the exact opposite mentality is also very prevalent on Lemmy. If you say anything bad about China (or Russia, North Korea, etc.), you will immediately be met with "well what about America huh???" There'd probably be more actually constructive dialogue if every post criticizing China wasn't immediately met with whataboutism.
Likewise, those same people will criticize the West for doing something and then praise China for doing the exact same thing. There was literally a comment in a thread about China just a day or two ago about state surveillance where someone was like "actually state surveillance in China is good because it benefits their citizens so it's a-okay" while then criticizing the West for state surveillance.
It's basically just my team vs. their team mentality.
EDIT: actually, I'll put it this way: in the many, many threads criticizing America or Europe, I don't often see someone randomly bring up China. In contrast, in threads criticizing China, I always see someone criticizing America or Europe pretty much out of nowhere.
I've tried also, but any time you criticize the USA or Europe and/or point out something is better in China you instantly get downvoted. There is no nuance whatsoever.
If the horseshoe fits...
You have to acquit
no wait
ftfy
Love how this simple truth gets downvoted.
FFS, you've got American citizens being massed through open windows by masked, unidentified vigilantes, and you still have people who will die on the hill of "China Worse" because foreign countries full of non-white people are evil.
live there then, im chinese i can tell you dont know want to live under ccp if you are not white and wealthy, promoting thier propaganda.
Well, in a socialist society, the purpose of romantic and sexual relationships is to bring into being the next generation of workers to build socialism, and relationships which don’t do this are bourgeois decadence.
i cant tell if this is mockery or not
That's the best kind of satire.
When they're talking about owning the means of production, it's manufacturing, not reproduction
The same can be said of capitalism with the purpose being to build capital, yet its not illegal to not have kids
Yet. Look around you at the fascist anti-gay capitalists in the growing western politics.
That's because Fascism is the natural end state of unfettered Capitalism as monopolies and cartels form naturally under it over time for most things and capital (which in Capitalism is Power) increasingly concentration, thus Corruption in Politics explodes which in turn accelerates monopoly and cartel formation and thus capital concentration in a vicious cycle.
However homophobia is not an inherent problem of Capitalism, it's an inherent problem of what Capitalism innevitably leads to if it's not stopped.
(All of this IMHO).
Point taken but I'd argue there's a useful and significant difference between "capitalism", "fascism", "anti-LGBTQ+ rights", and "(anti-)natalism", despite overlaps.
Gotta get back to you on this. Currently being pummeled with billy clubs for having an unsanctioned abortion.
It's so funny how you've taken some of the Silicon Valley Techbro logic and just inserted "socialism" into the center of it to let us know its bad.
In other words, force gay people to have straight marriages. I'm sure those will be functional and healthy relationships that aid the state. Not like that hasn't resulted in numerous suicides.
To put it simply, this is just ignoring reality and trying to stamp your own superficial views of society over it.
To be fair, socialist countries thus far have been mostly utilitarian when dealing with people.
If 10% of gay people commit suicide but 20% reproduce then the policy is a success. Lifes are just resources that can be spent for the "collective's" (read: state's) benefit.