173
They Really Think They’ll Be Able To Propagandize The World Into Liking Israel Again
(caityjohnstone.medium.com)
this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2025
173 points (96.8% liked)
Fediverse vs Disinformation
1731 readers
176 users here now
Pointing out, debunking, and spreading awareness about state- and company-sponsored astroturfing on Lemmy and elsewhere. This includes social media manipulation, propaganda, and disinformation campaigns, among others.
Propaganda and disinformation are a big problem on the internet, and the Fediverse is no exception.
What's the difference between misinformation and disinformation? The inadvertent spread of false information is misinformation. Disinformation is the intentional spread of falsehoods.
By equipping yourself with knowledge of current disinformation campaigns by state actors, corporations and their cheerleaders, you will be better able to identify, report and (hopefully) remove content matching known disinformation campaigns.
Community rules
Same as instance rules, plus:
- No disinformation
- Posts must be relevant to the topic of astroturfing, propaganda and/or disinformation
Related websites
- EU vs Disinfo
- FactCheck.org
- PolitiFact
- Snopes
- Media Bias / Fact Check
- PEN America
- Media Matters
- FAIR
Matrix chat links
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Heads up, this author is weird.
Her feed is roughly 90% just generic pro-Palestinian stuff, which, sure, sounds fine, and then 10% of it is crazy shit:
I can't find the one where she was repeating Russian talking point dogwhistles about how NATO is trying to start World War 3, ~~or how Europe turning to clean energy is dooming them to economic ruin~~ (edit: I was wrong that was someone else), but ~~those were~~ (that was) in there somewhere too.
I have no idea why she's super gung ho about the intricate details of American politics and not as much about Australian politics (where she's from), either.
Anyway I can't really tell if it's malicious in some way, or if she just likes talking about American politics but isn't aware of any details about it beyond "Israel's the worst," but her viewpoint is often weird.
"She's weird because she criticises the Democrats"
"I cant see nuance because it looks like criticism to me"
Ah yes, the "nuance" of implying people are Russian agents because they criticised Democrats.
Okey dokey. You motivated me spend enough time to look up some of the other stuff Caitlin's been talking about.
And so on. She's Australian, but she's super invested in why the Democrats and specifically the Democrats are bad people, "Russiagate" is fake and anyone who believes it is stupid, stuff like that. She constantly talks about US elections even in some pretty fine details (Joe Scarborough? I am American and generally pay attention to this stuff and I have only a vague idea of who he is). I still can't find the one where she talks about how Europe turning to clean energy instead of good old Russian oil is a horrifying mistake they better turn back from. Maybe I mixed her up with someone else, but I'm pretty sure that's in her stuff somewhere too.
Anyway, that's why I think she might be a Russian agent. She might not be. This Palestine stuff she's been posting recently is the only time I've seen her make 100% sense, but I predict that at some point in the future it'll pivot back around to some kind of talking point that would be super convenient for Russian state power the more it got spread around in Western (and in particular American, for some reason) media as a genuine grassroots leftist view.
OK? What exactly is your complaint here?
Ok? And? State your actual point please; because it seems like you're just trying to make an implication that you know would sound like rank McCarthyism if you actually came out and said it.
What do you mean "stuff like that"? Those two claims seem to have nothing in common.
What. Is. Your. Point.
But you're going to try and invoke it anyway to try and smear her.
Yes, that describes literally every human on Earth, thank you Senator McCarthy. Note that your reason for slandering her as a Russian agent is literally just that she has some opinions you disagree with and is a foreigner who knows about US elections (as if US elections aren't extremely fucking consequential for Australians, almost more so than domestic ones.) This is just vile attempts to smear someone who disagrees with you. The idea that it's acceptable to accuse people of being "Russian agents" because they hold views you don't like is pure xenophobic neoconservatism. You might as well accuse her of being paid by Hamas. Zionist do, all the time, and they have the same justifications as you.
Uhuh. So whether or not she a spooky foreign agent is dependent on whether you disagree with her. Are you sure she's not a Hamas agent?
Oh, so you're condemning her based on things she hasn't even said yet
And zionists will accuse her of using Hamas 'talking points'. "Talking point" doesn't mean anything except "point I don't like".
Imagine how fascist you would have to be to think the truth of a statement has anything to do with who it's "convenient" for.
Sounds like I touched a nerve.
I am saying that this woman might be part of the absolute tsunami of Russian disinformation which they've been investing in, in order to confuse Western voters with quite a bit of good success. She also might not be, but she sure does have a heavy, heavy sprinkling of pro-Russian talking points in here. I listed some examples I think.
Most anti-war people I know of just don't like war in general. They don't want Russia bombing people, or Syria, or the US, or Israel, or Australia. They're consistent. And they generally don't all of a sudden want us to think that Russia definitely didn't poison all of those diplomats and you're stupid if you think they did for example.
Sure they do, they're both coincidentally Russia-aligned points of view that there is not a lot of reason for someone who isn't American to get excited and super forceful about to the extent that she gets excited and forceful about them.
I've known a decent number of non-American people who are just against the American government in general (and with excellent reasons behind it). They very rarely take time to distinguish one and only one of the symmetrical and mostly aligned parts of the imperial machine, and single out that part for special condemnation. They don't care.
Just her believing or saying these things that to me seem out of place doesn't automatically mean she's malicious. Now that I looked over her blog more, I am a lot more convinced that she is actually Russia-aligned in some way. There's just a ton of stuff about Russia specifically, and literally every single time, the viewpoint is exactly what Russia state TV would want her to say. I've been reading her recently, when it's 90% Palestine and 10% Russia's-the-good-guys-btw, but her older stuff is way way more overt. But, anyway, you're not required to agree with me on that. The links are there, people can draw their own conclusions if they're motivated to look into it and read them.
Edit: Replaced double quotes with hyphens because that is critical I guess
Fair enough. I think I really was misremembering and it was from this blog that I got that one. I looked for a while on Caitlin's blog and couldn't find that particular point anywhere.
You keep telling me things are my argument, which are not my argument.
I don't really want to just keep indefinitely clarifying things to you, it seems likely to go on forever. Anyway, you asked some specific questions, so those are the answers. The back and forth bit I think I can leave aside; I already said pretty much everything I wanted to say, I think.
Edit: Holy God, I just went down a rabbit hole. She has literally been republished in Russian state media, and she apparently threatened to sue somebody who claimed she was Russian propaganda. There's a lot more, too. Other people have noticed that she's weird.
"U mad?"
Ok. So might you, so might anyone. This is just McCarthyism "Oh, I'm just saying that people who disagree with me might be Soviet Spies!"
Again, Zionists call her a Hamas agent. How are you any different?
How fascist do you have to believe that the reason people disagree with you is that spooky perfidious foreigner have mind controlled them? This is literally just warmed over Judeo-bolshivik conspiracy theory. Yeah, nobody could ever genuine believe something different to you, they've just been "confused". Fortunately though, you're immune; you can't be effectuated by disinformation. You're special and penurious.
To call what you listed " a heavy, heavy sprinkling of pro-Russian talking points" is completely fucking absurd. She disagrees with you a bit, that's it. How is this any different from zionists saying she's a Hamas asset because she repeats "Hamas talking points"?
Oh, so they would have no problem with criticizing the Wests role in drawing out the war in Ukraine?
So she's not rah-rah jingoistic and anti-Russia for you. Big deal. And you're not anti-Hamas enough. I guess you must be a Hamas agent.
Oh fuck off. Points of view don't have a national identity. You know, all of your points of view on Gaza are "Hamas aligned points of view." I guess you're a Hamas agent?
What a bullshit argument, "non-Americans aren't allowed to have opinions on global politics!" You get pretty fucking forceful and excited about Ukraine.... I guess you must be a CIA agent. You also get pretty forceful about Palestine. Guess you must be a Hamas operative.
What are you even trying to say? Once again sounds like you just don't like her opinions and are trying to smear her for unrelated reasons.
No, but you're going to endlessly insinuate it anyway.
Now that I look at your post history, I am a lot more convinced that you are CIA related in some way. There's just a tone of stuff about Ukraine specifically, and literally every single time, the viewpoint is exactly what American state TV would want you to say.
Making up quotes now are we? Well how do you explain you saying "I love the CIA" so often?
Wow, how charitable of you, thank you so much Senator McCarthy.
Lol, this is literally Qanon rhetoric. Or Zionist. How is this any different to zionists accusing her of being Hamas?
So are you actually going to learn a lesson here?
Maybe you should have done that before you tried to use it to build up your McCarthyist cast against her.
They're the argument you made. Maybe they aren't the argument you intended to make, but they're the ones you made.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
I notice you couldn't answer the one about how you're any different from Zionists who accuse her of being Hamas.
You sure did; you're a McCarthyist who thinks the only reason people might disagree with you is because they're part of a sinister foreign conspiracy to corrupt the West.
I feel like it was already pretty clear, but sure, I'll try again. I am trying to say that lots and lots of extremely hostile-to-Americans viewpoints are familiar to me and make sense. Actually, pre-Ukraine-war, I had some people I was very close to who were pretty pro-Putin specifically because he was sticking his thumb in the US's eye and they felt like that was great. But, as soon as he started bombing apartment buildings and kindergartens, they changed their mind because they aren't fucking weirdos and state-cheerleader monsters.
So I am trying to say that very rarely did any of those people get super excited about Hilary Clinton, Seth Rich, American partisan politics, particular pundits on cable news, all kinds of stuff like that. They just weren't interested. This lady has the most bizarre combination of election cheerleading like a CNN anchor, coupled with total disdain for the entire American foreign policy from top to bottom.
Never did it occur to me to accuse any of those people of being Russian propagandists, for reasons that should be obvious. This lady I'm a lot less sure of, for reasons that should be equally obvious but seem like they keep eluding you.
That's what I am trying to say.
That's actually not true. One of my common refrains is that the West is constantly betraying the Ukrainian people by giving intermittent and minimal aid and then putting extensive restrictions on what the Ukrainians are allowed to do with it, while they're fighting for their lives. There are a whole bunch of dead Ukranians because of them... which is a pretty common outcome for people who wind up depending on us for something urgent geopolitically when they have nothing (in our minds) to offer us in return.
Search my comment history for "a subtle racism" and I think that's one comment where you can find me talking about it.
I mean she literally said very explicitly at one point that it seems like Russia is a much more benevolent force in the world than the US. I didn't bookmark it or anything but it is there, and it's very clear that she regards them in general as behaving reasonably in the war and the West as behaving unreasonably.
Her more recent articles have been more (edit: ~~"AOC / Bernie are the bad guys"~~) "Bernie Sanders is a Ghoulish Zionist / AOC is a Genocidal Con Artist" than anything about Russia, fair enough, I should have said that when I talked about the 10%.
Hamas doesn't really have an extensively documented history of paying Western media people large and small to publicize various false things they want to plant in public consciousness, and she's not saying anything that is wildly false about Palestine that would even get me thinking in that direction.
I'm not even sure what the equivalent would be for Hamas. Maybe if she was saying that October 7th never happened or Hamas wasn't involved (as she did to the election interference or the diplomat poisonings), then yes, I would wonder if she was somehow doing deliberate astroturf for Hamas. But they're not really analogous organizations or situations.
I'm aware that you're pretending that the only reason I am saying any of this is because she has a viewpoint I "don't agree with" or w/e. I feel like I've documented why I think it probably in a decent amount of detail at this point.
Anything else you want me to answer before we wrap this up? Don't get me wrong, you've been a peach, I just have to wash my cardboard box collection soon and I really don't want to keep putting it off.
So you're saying that she doesn't remind you of the people you personally know, so she must be an evil foreign agent. That checks out, you do indeed seem to be a jingoistic chauvinist.
No, the reasons are very obvious: you don't like her arguments, so you're smearing her with McCarthyist ad-hominems.
It's as true as you're claims about Johnstone.
Wow, Russian talking points. Clearly you work for the KGB. Now address that I said you are using Hamas talking points in your history, clearly meaning you are a Hamas agent.
Ok, so she didn't say "Russia’s the good guys". Once again you are just openly making up fake quotes to spread disinformation.
Oh, you mean like that last thing you said you hadn't book marked that you claimed she said, and then it turned out she hadn't?
Oh, did she say that? Oh, no, of course not, you're just once again making up a false thing to claim about her that she never said. More disinformation from you, CIA agent.
Damn, you just cannot stop making up false quotes.
Well your post history is all "Ukraine and the DNC are perfect and beyond criticism, and all Russians should be killed," so clearly you're CIA
Yes they do, according to their enemies. Are you saying that Hamas don't pay media people? By the way, what actually false things has she said? Because so far you haven't actually been able to list any claims of fact that you believe are false.
Uhuh. So you're just admixing that it comes down to whether you personally agree with it or not. If you don't agree with it: Talking Point, clearly a paid foreign agent. If you do agree with it: It's just true. Just literally asserting that you're right, and disagreement is treason.
Why not? You've already said what makes something a Russian talking point: Anything that Russia is also saying, or anything that would benefit Russia if it was true. So saying, for example, that Israel is doing a genocide is, by definition, a Hamas talking point.
Yeah, because you agree with one and not the other. That's literally the only difference you've been able to articulate: "disagree with me? Foreign agent!"
I'm not pretending anything; that's the position you've laid out, you literally have not laid out any reason for you claim other than that she says things you disagree with. You just don't like me wording it that way because you want to be able to keep indulging in McCarthyist conspiracy theory to dismiss people you disagree with.
Oh yeah, you've definitely documented a bunch of things you disagree with her one; granted, a lot of those were completely made up lies that she never said, but that only further shows that you call her a ruskie infiltrator because you disagree with her.
Yeah, what do you think the end result of even the American left descending into warmed over Judeo-Bolshivik conspiracy theory is? What do you think the political environment will be like now that "You criticized the politician I like! Clearly you're an evil Ruskie subversive!" becomes the norm across the entire political spectrum?
Oh, and why do you have so many Hamas talking points in your history? Are you a Hamas agent?
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre
Got it. You just want to keep making the same point over and over again. I've tried to address it a few different times, and you're not into it. Okey dokey.
Final thoughts:
You got me lol. I went back and edited the quotes to hyphens, and replaced the AOC and Bernie thing with the exact words she said. Hopefully you are content now? Maybe not.
Heh. An example, from https://caityjohnstone.medium.com/the-reckless-brinkmanship-with-russia-just-keeps-on-escalating-73e514d99fe5
There's also stuff like this, where she has this whole revisionist history where Russia has every right to start slaughtering members of some random sovereign nation nearby to it as long as it makes sure to tell people in advance (which, of course, they didn't, but that's a separate issue), but Ukraine is trying to start World War 3 at the behest of Western powers if they fight back.
Ukraine doesn't "have to" destroy refineries or military aircraft inside Russia, simply because their apartment buildings and fruit markets with their corresponding people inside keep blowing up. That's "escalation." But Russia might "have to" start World War 3 if people don't take seriously their God given right to keep blowing up fruit markets.
You know, the anti-war perspective.
Glass houses mate; all you've done is continuously restate your argument that the fact she holds views you don't agree with is evidence she's actually an agent of the great Russian conspire to infiltrate and subvert our righteous Western society.
Yeah, and now it doesn't actually back up your point.
Are you going to finally stop making up quotes?
So she didn't say that; once again your argument relies on outright making up disinformation about her.
So no, you're not going to stop making up things she never said. So no, I'm not content; stop spreading disinformation.
At no point was this discussion ever about whether her opinions are correct or not, and yet here you are, arguing at length about them. Which makes sense, because to you, there's no difference between being wrong and being a Russian agent, you fundamentally don't believe people can honestly disagree with you, even if they're wrong. You are a McCarthyist, plain and simple.
Brain is a well known ragebaiter in the feddiverse
So I see lol
IDK why I got taken in by it, I like to think I'm usually pretty good at disengaging but for some reason he got me
Because you know I'm right, lol
You were being completely reasonable and brain in in the gutter was just trolling.
You people really cannot accept the idea of people disagreeing with you. How are they being reasonable when they are repeatedly making up lies out of whole cloth? What exactly have I said that makes me "trolling", but them "completely reasonable"? Oh right, nothing, you just already agree with them and have convinced yourself that trolling is when anybody tells you you're wrong.
You have simply become infamous.
Brain really just comes to rage bait, their comments and modlog say as much. Their active time seems to mostly be around office hours Moscow, but that could be a coincidence.
Nah, it's just one guy who's been following me around since I said Kamala Harris isn't better on Gaza six months ago
Oh hey, you're back to stalking me around. Have you not gotten enough bans for it yet? You've been doing it for over six months now.
Dude she's not going to fuck you. Get off the net and go outside.
Lol
In all 4 statements you attribute to her she is completely correct. Bernie and AOC are zionazis, the deaths of ghouls should be celebrated, and NATO is clearly trying to maneuver for a world war with China before the outcome is even more a forgone conclusion.
She's gotten more beside herself as the genocide proceeded with the genocidaires and their enablers firmly having the upper hand in most western nations with the possible exception of Spain. But she's spot on with this one, at least as far as people who don't simply eat what they're served from the media slop-trough are concerned.
Yeah, this article seems fine. Most of her articles seem fine. I'm just saying that "this very very pro-Palestinian person IS ACTUALLY AN ANTI-PALESTINIAN PERSON AND THEY ARE TERRIBLE ON PURPOSE AND FUCK YOU FOR THINKING DIFFERENT" is pretty suspicious to me however right she is with most of what she says.
How dare she criticise the sacred DNC, she must surely be a secret KGB agent. Also notice how you can never actually address her points honestly; you have to make up absurd fake quotes that she never said.
Bernie Sanders' blood feud with the DNC is inextricably linked to why I like him (and for that matter with why I think it's weird that Caitlin is so angry about him calling Gaza a genocide.)
what blood feud? the DNC ratfucked him and he folded and went along with it.
That's not what she's angry about, and you know it. So I'm going to write you off as being deliberately dishonest.
He called it a genocide, and she reacted by writing up a big dishonest article about why he is a massive piece of shit. I know she had various dishonest attacks on him and nitpicks about his statement, yes.
Here's what he said (and what he was trying to do to stop the US's complicity in it) before she decided he was a piece of shit for the "genocide" statement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miIT3Iz0qzA
So, like I said; you knew that "Caitlin is so angry about him calling Gaza a genocide" is false, and you said it anyway. IE, you are deliberately lying. Literally spreading disinformation.
I'll have to find a way to carry on, somehow, knowing that you don't respect my commitment to truth and honesty. I will attempt to recover my self-esteem, to whatever extent I can.
You literally just demonstrated that you don't have any commitment to truth and honesty, and will happily spread disinformation.