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Liberals hatred of Stalin is unreal
(lemmygrad.ml)
dank memes
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Yeah, that's definitely what happened lol
Yes, it did.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor
And for my next act allow me to cite this Texas middle school textbook on the topic of slavery
Well then you tell me what did, I'm intrested to hear "both sides of the story".
Ok here's what happened: Nazis made propaganda to discredit their enemies and you believed that propaganda. Then you went on a website and showed everyone there what an idiot you are, not just because you believe the propaganda and take it as the default, but also because what you're asking for someone else to explain to you has already been discussed at length in this same thread.
Alright let's say I know that, now what is it that made the people die in Ukraine?
A famine in a region where regular famines occurred every 5 years or so for the last 500 years. Avoidable, had mistakes not been made by central planning in that they trusted what kulaks were reporting as their grain figures and yields when the reality was that they were hoarding for private profit while reporting false figures. This error in oversight meant fields were assigned under yield and not enough was produced. Upon discovering this error was occurring it was swiftly and harshly stamped on by the deployment of the red army to seize hoarded grain, hoarders were executed.
It was the last famine the region ever had after hundreds of years of regular famines, with errors in the system being stamped out simply by having extra checks on numbers instead of trusting the farms in future.
It also did not solely occur in Ukraine. It occurred across the Soviet Union, heavily affecting Poland and Kazakh too, but is not the subject of a persistent campaign to label it genocide propaganda there by literal actual nazis spreading the double genocide myth.
This indeed sounds intresting, I might look into it. In the meantime thank you for your answer.
The primary thing to keep in mind here is that nobody denies that a famine occurred. The region was plagued with them for hundreds of years and the socialists were implementing a new method of production that was ultimately experimental and without any historic precedent from which to learn from. The mistakes that were made in its implementation did lead to an avoidable famine had those mistakes not been made. The question at hand is truly just whether this famine was intentional or not. Very little evidence for its intent exists, both in the soviet archives and in any outside evidence.
I strongly recommend reading the Preface to the Revised Edition of The Years of Hunger: Soviet Agriculture, 1931-1933 by RW Davies and Wheatcroft, two extremely well regarded academic historians. It is a good insight into how this was regarded as absurd by academia, and has been manufactured for political purposes over time. I will quote some of this preface below:
That's fascinating thanks for the quote
Attempts at historical revisionism will never stop. Being aware of and keeping track of them over time is half the battle in preventing them.
“But this would mean that I was wrong, and I, the main character of the universe, cannot be wrong. What do you think about that, tankie?”
No, that’s not how it works. You were the one that made the claim Stalin “exported all of his bread to other parts of his empire”, so the burden of proof is on you. Show us.
I don't intend to prove it as I'm not here to convince you. I just have a certain point of view, which I shared as it seemed as an apptopriate comment on the post. Now that you present me an alternative narrative, I'm intrested to learn what it is, and as I do not intend to prove mine, you don't have to prove your's either. We just have to converse, and that too only if you want to.
Your 'view' is just wrong though. The opening of the Soviet archives has confirmed that the USSR sent significant aid to the famine stricken areas.
https://old.archives.gov.ua/Sections/Famine/Publicat/Fam-Pyrig-1933.php#nom-159
the proplem with the metaphorical 'small people' is that they are in denial about beeing small people , so a obstacle that a tall person can easly cross ("Oh so i have been bambozzeled to a degree") appears daunting and endless to them ... for us it is easy because we are "tall" , for @halvar@lemm.ee it is daunting because he entered the dark site of town riding his high horse ,the horse then instantly died and the now obviously pretty small and helpless Halvar is running out of here it as fast as his littl legs can carry him .. maybe he will return someday .. humble and interested. Or will he preach of our barbarism in polite Society? - "Can you belive it ? they mistrust our exaclted Majestic Patron there ? !
to return , he obviously needs to grow , how do we messure that ... Obviously by his ability to cross without the help of a high horse , lifting him from the ground.. and then we can all be like ..
"look how much youve grown ! we proud of you!"
You don't intend to prove it as you literally can't because you didn't plan on being expected to. Don't try to pull bs on people here. This isn't Reddit where people with the same viewpoint will updoot you anyway no matter what the facts say.
If you're actually interested in knowing the full story of this western narrative then you're free to ask but when you make a snarky remark like that you'll be confronted about your standpoint and expected to back it up, and trust me when I say we have enough liberals coming in here dropping some regurgitated talking point thinking it's a mic drop moment only to falter when confronted.
I don't intend to do so, because even if I wanted I couldn't convince you, because you clearly made up your mind, and I don't have the time or indeed the knowladge to do so. I left a comment with what I consider my best knowladge, you guys took it as an invitation to battle. I then asked you what is your viewpoint, knowing that I can't change it, just like you most likely can't change mine, but regardless I was still intrested. Then somehow I'm a lib who shall be burned at stake.
I haven't made up my mind, but someone up above commented that theres no evidence that grain distribution was coordinated along ethnic lines, and the longer that thought sits with me, the more and more I'm convinced that this wasn't a genocide.
You've been presented with a falsifiable statement. If it is indeed false, it will be trivial to win this argument now. Is it?
oh , so suddenly all your Thunder is gone .. Damn .. howdid that happen.. ? Not that you build your identiy on "repeating uncriticly what authority tells me about their enemies "
because this worldview/ Identiy will run into obvious limitations .. I advise against it.. its detremetal to your Social Standing .. next time do
"I heard that he did X , whats up with that accusation"