this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2025
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I haven't read these in a while, but I have them bookmarked for this reason and I think they might help.
E: Added cw
Thanks for the first one, really appreciate it! What do you use the second one for? I assume it's good reference material, because liberals trust the new york times, right? I didn't read everything, I have to admit, but large parts of it. To me it seems to pretend to reveal secrets, but surly everything the New York Times publishes is exactly what the Pentagon wants published, right? It also uses a very emotional language, paints "the Americans" as cautious, reasonable and bursting with good intentions, "the Ukrainians" as brave defenders of their homeland, who sometimes are a bit too enthusiastic. It ends with a perfect tearful moment full of heroic carry on spirit.
I see how it can be useful to add credibility (in libs eyes) to facts, that you already know to be true, but it's not a great source itself, is it?
Sorry, I know I'm ranting pointlessly, I was just amazed how the writing is constantly about spinning a story, not about backing facts with sources. It's all: "than, at that secret meeting, the general felt that feeling", "than he had those intentions, and these emotions". Even if the actual person said so themselves, it still wouldn't be newsworthy or trustworthy. Journalism should be about actions and facts, but the style is more similar to classic fiction writing than to journalism, or rather, like a movie script. Actually wouldn't be surprised to see Hollywood make that movie soon.
The New York Times, like you say, is a trusted source for liberals. The article is of course, considering the source, from a pro-NATO perspective. It includes the opinion that the West should have been quicker to arm Ukraine and fear mongers "pro-Ukrainians" (read fascists) becoming the subject of political repression in the annexed territories. However, it goes into great detail regarding US/NATO involvement in the conflict and reveals how it is in-fact a NATO Russia proxy war rooted in NATO's goals of expansion and destabilizing Russia.
DeepSeek Summary
Based on the provided search results, the archived New York Times article (available at https://archive.ph/jTAcu) details the secretive and extensive intelligence-sharing relationship between the United States and Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War, particularly from 2022 onwards. Here is a summary of its key points:🔍 Key Summary Points:
💎 Overall Significance:
The article reveals the depth and complexity of the U.S.-Ukraine intelligence partnership, highlighting both its effectiveness in countering Russian advances and the underlying tensions, risks, and geopolitical calculations involved. It also critiques the U.S. for a sometimes inconsistent and overly cautious approach, which may have prolonged the conflict and increased human suffering .
For further details, you can access the full article here.
Yes, thanks, I get it.
Totally. It's easy to forget, that this is not obvious for libs.
From the AI summary:
This is one of the points that I was sceptical about when reading the original article. I'm ready to believe, that intelligence was shared that lead to the destruction of the ship. But I don't think intentions or emotional reactions can be reliably established. I mean, yes, it could have been this way and maybe that's exactly how it happened. Or, maybe, they totally did share this intelligence on purpose. I can easily imagine an editor or pentagon contact going: "well in this case we can't really say we wanted that escalation, it doesn't quite fit the reasonable image we want to get across to our audience, oh, I know, just say it wasn't intentional, that'll work and also spice up the story nicely "
I completely agree. Engaging in proxy warfare is largely about establishing the illusion of plausible deniability after all. I suppose it was careless of me to not add a disclaimer. I assumed most comrades here would know to separate the opinion from fact, but you can never be too cautious.