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[-] nxdefiant@startrek.website 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Specifically, one guy saying one thing AFTER doing the opposite. (See: Ukrainian Famine 1932)

he said this in an interview in 1936. https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1936/03/01.htm

It's still a good idea. Also, Stalin is still a fucking travesty of a human, as is everyone who enabled him.

[-] ThereRisesARedStar@hexbear.net 80 points 1 year ago

The famine being a genocide was misinfo spread by nazi publications such as hearst press. The misinfo was used as justification for murdering Jewish people as "soviet collaborators"

[-] nxdefiant@startrek.website 4 points 1 year ago

It doesn't matter if he personally loved every single Ukrainian that died, the fact is that even if you believe everything that was done to mitigate it was a best effort, and that everything that led to the union at large being essentially helpless to feed its people was an accident, it still paints the picture of a big talker that managed a country into the ground.

At best, in the most forgiving light, Stalin was an incompetent head of state, regardless of how smart he was, and was responsible for a lot of people who died reaching out their hands begging for help while he pulled out his pockets and shrugged. And that would have been the end of it, but no, he goes and waxes poetically about how starving people don't have freedom while the graves are still fresh.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 60 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Uh huh so by your logic then every world leader that exists, has existed, and will exist is a genocidal monster on the same level of Stalin because there's always some form of poverty in the world.

At least you're consistent with your dumb take.

[-] ThereRisesARedStar@hexbear.net 48 points 1 year ago

it still paints the picture of a big talker that managed a country into the ground.

I suppose if you squint at it and ignore all the other stuff sure? But the problems with famine relief were mainly local and partially caused by kulak sabotage (and they bragged about how effective that sabotage was, you can look it up), when the central committee understood the extent of the problem measures were quickly taken.

If we look at other facts though, like how successful collective farming was at breaking the cycle of famine and how rapidly the Soviets were able to industrialize, quick enough to defeat nazi-ism lose 1/6 of their population in the fight and still make it to space before anyone else, it paints a much better picture of the competence of soviet democratic economic management.

[-] RuthlessCriticism@hexbear.net 48 points 1 year ago

managed a country into the ground

From 1928 to 1939 (the period of full planning pre-war) industrial output increased 350%.

[-] nxdefiant@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago
[-] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago

Cite sources showing people starved or you will be banned

[-] Abraxiel@hexbear.net 33 points 1 year ago

Because the rapid industrialization and according massive reorganization of the economy and productive capacity of the country was messy and imperfect. And also because famines are only really uncommon in already industrialized economies.

[-] JuneFall@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

In addition civil war, kulaks burning food, imperfect management science (Taylorism which had problems with adjusting controlling to the reality on the ground), natural disasters and bad climate for crops. For example even when harvest was going on in plenty of areas the weather was too damp to gather crops at the ideal point in time which greatly diminishes your harvest. The same process could be seen this year in Europe.

The UK did embargo the Soviet Union till Lenin's NEP and similar things did happen regularly, this means that international finance and industrial capital would've often sought other countries in which they didn't have to fear such things, too. This means that the Soviet Union had to try to generate capital from other sources and those are the the surplus of the working class or the savings of people (vs. consumption).

[-] Balefirex@hexbear.net 49 points 1 year ago
[-] nxdefiant@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago

I don't blame trump for COVID, but I do blame him for the piss poor response and unnecessary deaths that could have been prevented were it not for willful mismanagement, blatant ignorance, and a cabinet woefully unprepared to deal with a megalomaniac hell bent on letting karma motorboat through a demographic he didn't find any value in.

Sounds pretty familiar yeah?

[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 42 points 1 year ago

brump it does sound familiar

[-] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago

libs when they have to bring up Trump to cope:

"heh, Trump was basically like Stalin" smuglord

[-] iie@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

I know this nerd has been banned, but for posterity I'll point out that the circumstances were completely fucking different.

COVID in America: you have a 21st century nation with internet, global trade, well-established information and logistics networks, clear understanding of the extent and nature of the threat, most of the world's top universities and biomedical research labs, you have fucking hundreds of thousands of people with lifelong specialist training in science, technology, emergency response, public messaging, and any other conceivable discipline relevant to managing a fucking pandemic, and you have all the money on earth to give them.

Soviet famine: you have a rural post-revolutionary state still racing to industrialize and prepare for war, still mostly uneducated and illiterate, no foreign trade, extremely rudimentary information and logistics networks, no way to establish any sort of responsive feedback control loop to manage the situation, and no way to fucking conjure more food out of the ground. There's no n95 to hand out, no stipend to stay home, no social distancing, no vaccine. All you can do is spread the scraps around and keep the farmers farming and workers working.

[-] commiewithoutorgans@hexbear.net 46 points 1 year ago

Do you want s conversation about this or are you coming set in your ways? That way, we can either talk about your unfounded position or shame will be the best option moving forward on this topic

[-] nxdefiant@startrek.website 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Those are just facts. He did a lot of horrid shit. Sending a fuckload of people to clog up the Nazi meat grinder with their bodies isn't heroism, it's the last desperate act of someone trying to save their own ass.

The Russians that died in the city Stalin named after himself are the heroes who defeated Fascism.

[-] ThereRisesARedStar@hexbear.net 70 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sending a fuckload of people to clog up the Nazi meat grinder with their bodies isn't heroism

Except that is just the "mongol horde" myth spread by the nazis. The soviet military was a modern military which fought as a modern military. The "not one step back" order was directed at higher officers who favored unnecessary withdrawals at the expense of ceding territory that the nazis would start exterminating and of leaving the flanks of other army formations vulnerable.

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 57 points 1 year ago

Lmao you literally believe nazi propaganda if you're doing "Enemy At The Gates" level assertions of what the war of the Eastern Front was like

[-] commiewithoutorgans@hexbear.net 55 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Jesus Christ your example is the single most impressive war in history(edit: actually don't wanna take away from the Korean comrades or Angolan comrades or vietnamese comrades, they also did amazing) and blaming the General leading it for not being one of the soldiers?? Fuck me, that's such a terrible example. I'm one of the 70-30 good-bad people on Stalin, which is about 50 percent better than any westen leader ever. But you chose like the literal best thing he ever did that can be attributed at least significantly to him.

He managed to not only keep the Germans waiting too long (where soviets were then able to build up their military during the war to lead to their success) but also pull the rest of the world into the war to their assistance (diplomacy and manoeuvering). Otherwise I don't think western countries would've actually stopped the Nazi's tbh, or even tried to help.

Of course the millions of dead soviets did the work and died under Stalin. And the rest of the population was saved by the sacrifice and Stalin mourned and celebrated them despite not being on the front lines.

[-] JuneFall@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

Of course the millions of dead soviets did the work and died under Stalin. And the rest of the population was saved by the sacrifice and Stalin mourned and celebrated them despite not being on the front lines.

Stalin did went to the front lines multiple times though https://www.rbth.com/history/336242-stalin-front-wwii

[-] commiewithoutorgans@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

You're right, I took too much credit from him. I guess I meant he never put himself into the situations where death was a 70% certainty like many Soviet soldiers heroically did. But good leadership also means living and being commander when you might not even want to (referring to Stalin wanting to end his position)

[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 44 points 1 year ago

pigpoop pit russian orc hooman wave tactics

[-] Flinch@hexbear.net 35 points 1 year ago

tfw your understanding of history comes from Enemy At The Gates stalin-joking

this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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