this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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Image is of destruction and damage inside Israel, sourced from this article.


Iran and Israel have struck each other many times over the last few days. There has been a general focus on military facilities and headquarters by both sides, though Israel has also struck oil facilities, civilian structures and hospitals, and in return for this, Iran has struck major scientific centers and the Haifa oil facilities.

Israel appears to have three main aims. First, to collapse the Iranian state, either through shock and breakdown by killing enough senior officials, or via some sort of internal military coup. Second, to try and destroy Iranian nuclear sites and underground missile cities, or at least to paralyze them long enough to achieve the first and third goals. And third, to bring the US into a direct conflict with Iran. This is because the US better equipped to fight them than Israel is (though victory would still not be guaranteed depending on what Iran chooses to do).

Iranian nuclear facilities are hidden deep underground (800 meters), far beyond the depth range of even the most powerful bunker busters (~70 meters or so), and built such that the visible ground entrances are horizontally far away in an unknown direction from the actual underground chambers. Only an extremely competent full-scale American bombing force all simultaneously using multiple of the most powerful conventional (perhaps even nuclear) bunker busters could even hypothetically hope to breach them (and we have seen how, in practice, American bunker busters have largely failed to impair or deter Ansarallah). There are several analysts on both sides who have concluded that it is entirely impossible to physically prevent Iran from building nukes.

I fully expect the US to join the war. I believe the current ambiguity is a deliberate invention of the US while they work to move their military assets into position, and as soon as they are ready, the US will start bombing Iran. After that, Iran's leadership must - if they haven't already - harden their hearts, and strike back with no fear, or risk following the path of Libya, Syria, and Iraq, either into either surrender, occupation, or annihilation. Every day where they do not possess a nuke is a day where lives are being lost and cities are being bombed.


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Alexander Mercouris, who does daily videos on the conflict. While he is a reactionary and surrounds himself with likeminded people, his daily update videos are relatively brainworm-free and good if you don't want to follow Russian telegram channels to get news. He also co-hosts The Duran, which is more explicitly conservative, racist, sexist, transphobic, anti-communist, etc when guests are invited on, but is just about tolerable when it's just the two of them if you want a little more analysis.
Simplicius, who publishes on Substack. Like others, his political analysis should be soundly ignored, but his knowledge of weaponry and military strategy is generally quite good.
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[–] aanes_appreciator@hexbear.net 47 points 2 months ago (1 children)

So the target of interest right now seems to be Fordow. I imagine the Iranians know this and have already evacuated anything sensitive. Would be interesting to see if the US were to declare victory and scuttle off once that target was dealt with or if they'll deal with other sites too.

For Iran, you can only hope they have facilities unknown to the entity, which wouldnt be totally surprising if not for the massive levels of security infiltration we've seen this last week.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 24 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

The US could drop a nuke on it and it wouldn't so much as shake the ceiling down below

The Israelis and Americans are deluding themselves if they think they can penatrate 800 meters of ground and bunker cover, no ordinance on earth can even touch a 100 meters and the Iranians are quickly refilling surface holes at other underground facilities

[–] la_tasalana_intissari_mata@hexbear.net 19 points 2 months ago (2 children)

it's not 800 meters, it's less than that another commenter said around 80

[–] SeventyTwoTrillion@hexbear.net 21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Grossi: “I’ve been there multiple times. To reach it, one must go deep, then deeper, and deeper still. Iran’s nuclear program cannot be destroyed by an attack.”

“The most sensitive things are half a mile underground — I have been there many times [...] To get there you take a spiral tunnel down, down, down.”

Though I'm unsure if that figure is something he knows or he suspects, because it's gotta be hard to know how deep you are without being explicitly told. But I feel like I would be able to tell if I was 80m or 800m underground (if I went down the whole way and wasn't like, blindfolded or unconscious or whatever).

And here's the thing: 80m isn't particularly deep. Like, parts of the Kiev Metro are deeper, and so is, I think, one of the DPRK and Chinese subway lines. The question is whether Iran would put their critical nuclear sites deeper than a subway line built in 1960.

hopefully it's very deep

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think some sources add the mountain's height

[–] aanes_appreciator@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That adds some complexity to it because either the entire facility is under the mountain or there are potentially areas much closer to the surface.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago
[–] aanes_appreciator@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I dont think they'd even bother escalating if it was 800M (or had intelligence to suggest their MOPs couldnt disable it). They'd let Israel fight it out themselves and provide logistics. The only thing the Americans have against Iran that Israel fundamentally doesn't is the GBU-57 MOP and a platform from which to launch it.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

The Americans and Israelis literally thought killing a few high level people would trigger a country wide uprising, they're dumbasses

[–] aanes_appreciator@hexbear.net 14 points 2 months ago

True, we're not dealing with rational actors on either side.