this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2025
486 points (98.8% liked)

World News

43409 readers
4062 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] alkbch@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Why haven't the European countries already increased advanced limitary support and decreased limitations as well as increased kinds of pressure on the invader? Are they just waiting for more Ukrainians to die and more territories to be lost? Do they want Ukraine to "win" or do they just want to prolong the war as long as possible?

Clearly I can't state for sure that they want to do it, but their actions certainly do not contradict my hypothesis.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

That is the big question since the start of the Invasion, as they didn't went all in from the start and were only increasing military support and decreasing the limitations on its use (such as not being able to use it against Russian Territory) in a drip-drip away.

Same question could be posed to Biden's America.

My guess is a mix of trying to avoid the whole thing turning into a nuclear conflict and the edging their bets (no point in giving all kinds of kit up front to Ukrained and then they were overwhelmed for other reasons such as lack of manpower and Russia just got a whole lot of Western kit on their hands). Also if there is one thing most European politicians are definitelly guilty of, is being hesitant and over-cautious.

There's also the possibility that they were following the Machiavelic strategy of drawing Russia further into that War by keeping the Ukranian military power around the level that defeating them was just barelly outside the reach of Russia. The purpose would be to drain Russian military assets and power to reduce its danger to everybody else and to give time for European nations to grow their own military power back to the level it was at before Russia started to be seen as a peaceful partner which no longer held imperialist dreams. If that was the intention, it seems to have worked wonderfully on the first part and so far so good on the second part, though the Ukranians would have been sacrificed beyond what they need to for it (hence why I called it a "Machiavelic strategy")

Independently of that, at this stage going back on all of that sunk investment is a completelly difference level of changing their actions than the slow, step by step increase in supportting Ukraine of the last 2 years, and somebody having a history of hesitation and step by step change does not in any way form or shape support a thesis that they desire a sudden large scale change in exactly the opposite direction of the one they have been following for two years in a step by step way, quite the opposite (people who are extra cautious in increasing their investment into something don't just dump 2 years of increasingly investing and accept failure just because one of the "partners" wants to quit)

[–] alkbch@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

For your last paragraph, let's wait and see what happens. I doubt European countries will provide support for Ukraine much longer if the US withdraws its support completely.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Oh yeah, we won't really know until we see it.

I hope Europe does rise up to the challenge and replaces the US part of the military help to Ukraine (and I hope to they don't have strings attached to it which was an American inspired things), not just for Ukrainians but also because strategically its the smart move (as if Europe chickens out and Russia succeeds now, they will sooner or later act militarily against EU countries) but we can't really know for sure either way until they do.

[–] alkbch@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

It's not looking promising. Even France and the UK, who are the only powerful countries talking about deploying troops on the grounds, would only do it after a peace deal is reached, and only if the US provides a backstop. It's hard to take them seriously as this point.