this post was submitted on 16 Feb 2025
793 points (97.0% liked)
Memes
47102 readers
925 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I was with you speaking truth about what happened in the square vs. side streets, but now you went off the rails.
The protesters were Dengists. The whole thing started when Hu Yaobang died, making people fear that anti-reformist forces within the party would get the upper hand. They were backing up one faction against the other, predictably, the hardliners wanted to crack down on them just as they wanted to get rid of the reformers. That's why this turned ugly instead of getting resolved in the reformist way, which they were busy doing, having conferences with the protestors.
Absolutely, 110%, Chinese-internal politics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird
Oooooh typewriters. Did they also send pencils? Other things that the protestors could get themselves, or do without? That could have come from other places if the CIA didn't supply them to their moles, to distribute? How many pencils did the protesters use that were not procured through the CIA?
The whole colour revolution thing is a KGB myth. Populations cannot be influenced like that, it's just not how social dynamics work. It's a power fantasy they never managed to implement for themselves, but believe the other side has, because they're that kind of paranoid.
In any case: Yes, the students were Dengists. Is, or is not, Dengism a Chinese political stance. One that wasn't exactly extraordinary in the days, and still the foundation of much current policy. Did the CIA come up with the modern stance of the CCP or something or what do you want to imply.
You are basically denying the CIA exists. To which I counter: "The CIA exists."
I acknowledge the CIA exists. What I deny is it being all-powerful. The CIA is not god, it cannot achieve aphysical results. I hope that's not controversial.
Yes, the CIA proved that by failing this color revolution. The populace did not fall for the CIA playbook and there was no massive civil war. Only a small riot. Keep in mind this is nothing like the Kent State massacare where the American police actually massacared peaceful unarmed protesters. These Tiannenmen rioters burned army officers alive.
...which is not the same people as were on the square. Those were Peking locals, not students, barricading the side streets so the army could not get to the square, while (other) Peking locals had previously informed the army that the people on the square weren't counter-revolutionary insurgents but their sons and daughters, good Dengists, because the hardliners in the party had conveniently omitted that part from the marching orders. You can find lots of pictures of people handing bowls of noodles to soldiers in tanks, those are of that. The army had its orders, though, pushed through the barricades, that's where the casualties occurred, arrived at the square, then told the protesters to GTFO or else, orders from above. The protesters chose GTFO, hence no massacre on the square. Don't expect me to side with the hardliners giving those marching orders, they were not the ones saving the day, the Peking noodle brigade was. And I'd actually expect even lemmygrad to not side with them either because their views do not represent current CCP positions. Like, for one, private enterprises exist in China, the hardliners wanted none of that.
Also I have no idea why you're going on about a massacre in the US right now. They're having one at least once every fortnight, business as usual. Did you mistake me for a Yank? Whataboutism looks really silly if you don't take proper aim.