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New York man pleads guilty to running Chinese police station in Manhattan
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2024
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"private citizen sending a message abroad about publicly available information on someone?"
That is actually a pretty nefarious thing because it is targeted, as in spying. That's what is not legal.
Just a quick search gave me this:
18 U.S.C. 2261A says, “Whoever (1) travels in interstate or foreign commerce or is present within the jurisdiction of the United States, with the intent to kill, injure, harass, intimidate, or place under surveillance, or intimidate another person, and in the course of, or as a result of, such travel or presence engages in conduct that (A) places that person in reasonable fear of the death of, or serious bodily injury to (i) that person; (ii) an immediate family member (iii) a spouse or intimate partner of that person….”
In this case, there is an intent to have repercussions. I was wondering as well why Private Investigators are allowed to do this and in short, they are regulated so they have to work within the frame of law and should have a lawful purpose.
Thanks, that makes some things a lot clearer.
But just play along with me for a second...
We're in court and that law gets cited and the defence attorney says "surveillance was happening, yes, but that in itself wasn't illegal. In order to break that particular law one has to prove it was being done with the intention that it result in "a well founded fear of death or serious bodily injury"'. And where is the proof that was the intention or the result?
So if this guy's going around like a mobster on behalf of the Chinese government and threatening people on their doorstep I'd get it.
But, reading the law closely, just sending information to another country does not, in itself, seem to be illegal. That's why I was making the point about free speech. The first amendment is literally about communicating legal information freely without persecution from the government, even if that's with people the government doesn't like.
I'm not saying the guy didn't do anything wrong, I just mean I assume there's more to it than the article is describing..
But surveillance is illegal, especially in a targeted form. Let me put it like this, your address is public, as people can see when you get in and out of your house. But now someone goes and tells someone else, a criminal, your address with the intention to cause you damages. That person, the informant, becomes directly an accomplice, even if the person didn't do damage directly.
But it's the "with intention to cause you damages" bit that makes it illegal (I believe).
Saying you saw so-and-so down at the shops is obviously not illegal. Saying that to their ex-partner so they go and beat them up is. (Even then a prosecutor would have to prove you incited or intend harm to come, just the sharing of info itself isn't a crime per se)
That's what I wasn't understanding from the article. Are there very specific limits on first amendment so that what would ordinarily be communication of public information becomes illegal just because the recipient is a foreign government. Or was it illegal because the public information was shared with the known intent of causing physical harm.
The article sounded like the former, which surprised me. I think the latter is probably the actual circumstances though I could be wrong.
Well you are talking about 2 different things.
Stalking: just following a person for your own personal benefit.
And Spying/Surveillance: following someone to share the information with another entity or government.
The person in question had several logs and such logs were communicated to the chinese government, they have proof of this, so such actions are criminal offenses.