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this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2024
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How you still did not understand that this way of arguing won't change anyone's mind?
"Choose between slow sleepwalk to fascism or this rapid honest one".
I can't fathom why people put all the blame on the voters. Dems could a and should have done more. Harris got billion dollars for her campaign!
Biden pardoning his son is understandable, but a giant Fuck You to everyone else. He got his, now the rest will live with consequences.
DNC has fucked the USA again and again. How about some blame there.
Unreal.
Most voters don't have luxuries of having time or education to make deep dives into issues, and are swayed by some nonsense.
And think what you like, it's usually not something they choose voluntarily or consciously.
I can't fathom how people point out how 'pulling yourselves up by the bootstraps' is BS, and then they point to tired, underpaid, health issue ridden public and say: "you should know not to vote for this!!1!".
Then Harris panders to the right and the same people don't understand how she could lose. Really?
AOCs voters said they are tired of the status quo. Something we all know and understand. And we know the DNC will never let go of the status quo. Where does this lead to?
AOC's voters said all sorts of insane, idiotic shit, when she asked why they voted for her but also Trump.
It was trivially easy, and took very little time, to inform yourself about the two options. There is no excuse. People need to take responsibility for their decisions, and blaming everyone but themselves is just copium.
Those are the people you have to convince to vote, that's all.
If you keep ignoring them, nothing will change.
This attitude is what brought the results. Ignoring masses to pander to billionaires is not going to win democrats anything. Pointing fingers to other side and announcing 'we are better than them' worked only once.
Yes, and them not voting is one of the reasons we are where we are. So you agree.
Yes, obviously in democracy you need people to vote for you.
And in order to achieve that, you need to convince them to vote for your cause. If you don't, it's not their fault. They vote for what they believe, no matter how crazy and stupid it may be. That's also part of the 'rule of the people'.
I can see that you will do everything you can to keep yourself convinced that people who voted third party, or chose not to vote at all, bear no responsibility for the consequences of their actions.
I hope you're able to one day acknowledge what's happening, and accept that you fucked up and take responsibility for your action (or inaction).
I'm not saying they are not responsible for the outcome. But they voted for what they believed in. If you want to vote for your side, put effort into it.
I am not an american, I vote, and am very sad that elections everywhere go to the bad actors. And I realize that I need to do more so that better actors get more votes. Or this won't change.
Arguably most voters wouldn’t have needed to take a deep dive into issues to see Trump was the worse option, a shallow one at most. A swim would’ve been enough, really.
Why would I care about changing anyone's mind at this point? America is going to be a fascist dictatorship. Any sort of semblance of a free and fair election are over.
By understanding the problem potential solutions may emerge.
Doomerism helps the owner class, they need you to feel helpless and isolated. Don't let them win.
Do you know nothing about Project 2025? You've had a long time to learn about it. The whole point is to keep Republicans in power perpetually and remove any need for legitimate elections.
And you think you can vote your way out of that?
(By the way, I love how you've gone from "this sort of arguing won't change anyone's mind" to "why aren't you trying to change people's minds?!?!")
Re:btw what do you mean? It's the same thing: you should be trying to change people's minds, and be better at that, and I'm bringing your attention to it. You are a prolific poster all over the fediverse, so you can have a big impact on people. And I think you are aware of it.
I've known about the P25 for a long time, I'm well aware of its consequences. Burying our heads and losing our hope is the only way they can get away with it.
Kings have fallen, and we all should do our best to not create them again. That includes understanding those who voted for them. Ignoring the problem or its root cause won't change anything.
I keep repeating this line in my head:
They already got away with it.
They have not. As long as we fight, they will not get away with it.
Please do name the absolute monarch that fell because people had a vote and the monarch said, "fair enough," and stepped down.
And I like how your only two options are "vote expecting elections to be fair" and "do nothing."
You are completely misrepresenting what I'm writing, and I'm done discussing with you.
Have a nice day.
Enjoy seeing your voting accomplish nothing ever again.
I'm not an american, but I watch closely what's going on there.
You enjoy for self-fulfilling prophecies and laying down.
I thought you were done discussing it with me.
And yes, believing in Project 2025's aims, which Trump just re-endorsed, is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I noticed you never gave any sort of rational pathway for Trump to offer fair elections or accept their outcome. Is it because there isn't one?
Don't stick your head in the sand, oppose anything that threatens democracy, don't just accept defeat.
Again, what is the rational pathway for Trump to offer fair elections or accept their outcome?
You know you can't answer that question because you know there isn't one.
And you still have this ludicrous idea in your head that the two options are "hope for a free and fair election" and "accept defeat."
If it doesn't change a person's mind, it's because they don't understand it.