493
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2024
493 points (86.5% liked)
politics
19144 readers
322 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
You clearly have not read the history of Nazi era labor camps. They had very nice sounding propaganda for Germans to believe too.
Don't kid yourself. They mean forced labor camps.
I have read the history of Nazi era labor camps. I do not believe every outcome that occurred in Nazi Germany will occur here. Since neither Trump, nor RFK, is in charge yet, you and I can only conjecture about what they will do once they are in charge. I prefer to restrict my criticism to their stated plans instead of these hyperbolic statements, but you do you.
I guess under the same reasoning that this will be Nazi Germany, we will also be doing a land invasion of Mexico and/or Canada for more "living space". If you don't believe that to be true, then the best I can say is we will have a partial overlap with Nazi Germany. Assuming you do not believe there will be a land-invasion of our closest neighboring countries, can you explain what parts of Nazi Germany I can expect and what I cannot?
So far, I understand your reasoning to be that Trump and Co. have identical goals to Nazi Germany. I am curious how this meshes with Trump's broad support of Israel, which would probably be in conflict with the antisemitism of Nazi Germany.
They've told us what they plan to do. Believe them.
Sorry, let me ask more directly. The aims of Trump are exactly the same as Hitler? If no, why are we talking about Nazi-era death camps?
The difference between you and I is that I am reading the actual words from these fellows (who I don't like very much anyway) to try to determine their stated goals and you seem to just be saying "TRUMP = NAZI".
We all benefit from having an accurate picture of the country next year. You seem to say it's Nazi Germany. Is it, or is it not?
They said they plan to make large scale detention camps to hold and deport up to 18 to 20 million undocumented immigrants. This is exactly what the Nazis said they would do to their target groups as well. It was only after deporting such a large mass of people became logistically impossible that they resorted to mass death camps. That is, if you believe their Nuremberg testimony.
The original thread was talking about users of Adderall and other prescription drugs. Are you saying that the plan will be to send Adderall / prescription drug users and undocumented immigrants to the same labor camps?
I'm saying they're expanding the list of who they wish to detain. Just like the Nazis did.
I don't believe your questions are asked in good faith.
RFK's proposed program is a state-funded "wellness farm" to enable users of prescription drugs and Adderall to rehabilitate. This is entirely distinct from Trump's plan to detain and then deport undocumented immigrants. Notably, one group would consist of American citizens and one would not.
If your level of paranoia regarding Trump is such that you believe he will put his own citizenry in labor camps, then nothing I can say or do will convince you otherwise, as it does not appear to be backed in evidence.
I am annoyed that you classify this as bad faith, as I am attempting to address and criticize his stated plans and goals instead of catastrophizing about Nazi Germany.
Again, if you are saying Trump behaves identically to Nazi Germany, then are we going to see a land invasion of Mexico/Canada? Will Trump make the democratic party illegal? That's what Hitler would have done.
Will he also turn on Israel instead of offering aid? Isn't antisemitism a core tenet of Nazi Germany? I find the comparison rather flawed.
You're either obsequious or gullible to the point of delusion. They won't just target their enemies, one day it will be you too. For they must have enemies to target, so when they run out even servile loyalists like you will wind up on their lists.
We have nothing further to discuss.
Slippery Slope Fallacy.
No. Reality. This is no slippery slope.
I get what you're saying, but would people in germany in 1932 have been able to predict what was going to happen in between 1934-9?
What I am saying is that people are extrapolating that Trump will have death camps soon because that's what Nazi Germany did. Since Trump breaks with Nazi Germany in many ways (such as he advocates for friendly relations with the Jewish state, Israel), we can say as a matter of fact that he has policy differences from Nazi Germany.
If Trump's behavior differs from Nazi Germany, then it does not follow that he will establish death camps.
I am becoming increasingly frustrated with the Nazi analogy with Trump. I will agree that he shows some authoritarian tendencies, but philosophically they have some critical differences:
Adolf Hitler
Donald Trump
Adolf Hitler
Donald Trump
Those are quotes directly from the two of them and I would say they differ very much in their views of Democracy and the role of warfare in the modern world.
Trump is such an absolute disaster that you can easily find things to criticize him on without the flawed equivocation to one of the worst dictators of the 20th century:
Stating the above is far more factual and accurate than a crude equivocation to Nazi Germany. Given the above, I can say it's pretty likely we can expect more of the same in his next presidential tour, such as further environmental rollbacks. Despite my distaste for the man, I cannot envision him starting death camps and exterminating people, or starting land invasions to expand the US, which is what Nazi Germany would do.
All of the above is quite a bit longer than "TRUMP = NAZI", but I believe speaking in detail about the specific mistakes Trump made (or will make) lets us have a more productive conversation about how to deal with them and may also enable us to contrast his approach to whomever seeks election in the US in 2028.
We've had enough pointless name calling in the US in the past couple of years. Let's elevate the discussion and hopefully we will be a better nation in the wake of Trump's reign.
Why pick two of his better quotes to make your point? It just make your argument look weak.
What about the constant resist dog whistling? The "eating the dogs" stuff? The wearing proud boys colours?
? The whole point was to show that in some very important areas, Trump is the polar opposite of Hitler.
Admittedly, I haven't read everything on Hitler, but I am not sure he weighed in on the 'eating the dogs' stuff, nor the Proud Boys. Please re-read my comment and let me know if I am understanding you properly.
Sorry, but cherry-picking some good quotes from trump doesn't prove anything. I'm sure if you searched hard enough you could find equally "good" quotes from Hitler. You are using the same flawed logic (extrapolating from small amounts of data) that you're accusing everyone else of.
Optimism does not seem like a good defence against creeping fascism. What if you're wrong?
Trump has his own unique flavor of terribleness, but I want to smash the illusion that his goals and aims are exactly the same as Hitler. If you really despise his vision so much, wouldn't you want to understand it and critique it as effectively as possible? I'm sick of seeing TRUMP IS HITLER because no matter how many times people say it, it's not an accurate claim. Call my quotes 'cherry picked' but they are REAL.