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I'm dubious. Mom dies suddenly, then baby dies suddenly after choking on it's own vomit. Yeah, no, let's blame the fireworks. Surely, nothing else could be the cause of Red Panda deaths at this zoo.
I had a whole thing earlier but was mistaken, the baby was 3 months old not a newborn. Either way, I still don't doubt that fireworks could easily stress out a very young animal and be the tipping point of their health.
I'm not sure what could motivate them to make a grand conspiracy against fireworks, rather than the more likely result of them being exhausted and frustrated caretakers who, like any pet owner, probably spent that evening trying to calm the panda down only to watch it panic until it died. Stress vomiting isn't really rare for animals on the 4th of July. It's just the extreme end of stress.
I'm not saying that it's a conspiracy against fireworks, but possibly a problem with the habitat, food, or something else that would cause big issues for the zoo if discovered. The fireworks were convenient. I have zero evidence for this other than the fact that a lot of zoos are complete cesspools, and so I typically don't trust "suddenly died" followed three days later by another "suddenly died" regardless of how many fireworks were launched off.
Also, there is this line:
Seems like the zoo just left a weak animal to suffer instead of taking precautions to assure that the panda was placed in a safe location. It makes me doubt that anyone was even there, and that the zookeepers returned the following day to a dead red panda and tried to cover it up.
Says it all really.
Tell me, what was the purpose of your comment? What are you trying to say?
Seems pretty obvious, but I guess I'll do them a solid and spell it out for you: you are talking out of your ass.
That's fair, I definitely jumped to the "they wanna take away fireworks" conspiracy on my end, too much arguing on the Internet for me this week >.<
I do hope they look into it. I just know how freaked out my pets have been in the past, inconsolable at times, so the fireworks being a real factor wouldn't surprise me. I'd hope they would have meds to help calm the animals, but I wonder if they were too young for them, or had a dosage issue.
Whether or not it was the direct cause in this case, fireworks cause a lot of animals a lot of stress and deaths do come from it.
I don't see why anyone needs to be able to buy explosives to use at home, firework shows should be organised in set locations and should use low noise fireworks as much as possible.
Maybe they should have called some vet experts to investigate. Oh wait that is exactly what they did but I am sure people on the internets know more about animals. Not a big fan of zoos but people who armchair are magnitudes worse.
And no medical professional has ever been found to be biased in their opinion. And no reporter ever misrepresented what someone said to make a more sensational article. Stress is not a well understood thing. There is no test for confirming the source of stress. And the vets aren't saying their is. Did the fireworks contribute, sure I would trust a vet who says that, and it was probably what they actually said. But a babies Mom dieing, and not being there to comfort the baby from the stress of fireworks is probably a bigger contributor. Also read a little further down where the expert says we can't rule out fireworks as the cause. That is totally different. Seems like the vets don't agree.
right and random strangers on the internet are completely unbiased and generally reasonable? It does not give one enough reason to completely disregard experts'opinions. vets are saying that it probably is a contributing factor whereas people in this thread are claiming that it is the zoo who is trying to cover up for bad conditions and negligence in the zoo. tell me which one sounds more reasonable?
Neither one has to be correct. One experts opinion is that they couldn't rule it out. That sounds reasonable. I do think that the zoo bares some responsibility for bringing such a fragile species into a city. Zoo's do a lot of good too. But they knew there would be fireworks. Where were they? Why wasn't someone there to take the baby to it's enclosure. Or sedate it during the fireworks. People do more for their adult dogs than the zoo did for this baby. I don’t think it's a cover up or anything. They have lot's of experts. They quoted the one that said the most sensational thing. I am not saying disregard the experts, I am saying a hand picked (by people with an agenda) sample size of one is not evidence of anything. I am willing to bet if you took a poll of all of the experts at that zoo, you would get a much less confident opinion, more like the "can't rule it out" than the "fireworks killed the baby" person.
The fact of the matter is that you or I don't really have any information what the zoo did for this baby or did not. Most everything in this topic is pure speculation and has to do with more how people see the world through their eyes than any evidence or fact. The only piece of evidence we have is what the vet experts have said. Anything else is a huge "maybe".
That is a much stronger statement that, "fireworks was probably not the cause of this". They could also have just gone with "stress due to loss of the mother" easily and no one would really think twice about it. But they did choose to make this statement. Experienced vet surgeons/nurses etc who have had the opportunity to experience how animals behave under these conditions many many times. Also mind you this one way the news has been reported, I have seen multiple instance where the wording is more stronger such as:
"Very sadly, she choked on her vomit on Bonfire Night and our vets believe this was probably a reaction to fireworks,” said Ben Supple, RZSS’s deputy chief executive. Roxie had access to her den but the frightening noises seem to have been too much for her. We are also concerned that fireworks cause stress to other animals in the zoo.”
I have seen remarks in this topic ranging from "their vets are just the zookepers" to "animals don't vomit because of fireworks". It is just ridiculous. Even these vet experts have not made their statements in such certainty as the people in this topic.
They didn't call in an outside vet to investigate. The fucking zoo keepers are vets. The zoo keepers are telling you what happened. You can believe them or not, but it's not accountability.
Check under the vet team here:
https://www.rzss.org.uk/conservation/meet-the-team
Professors, veterinary surgeons, veterinary nurses etc. Edinburgh zoo is not just your run of the mill local village zoo. So sorry buddy, I am sure you will understand if I still trust the word of these people on the matter and not you, a random person with distaste against zoos (not a big fan either to be honest). I mean this is not just any field as well, this is zoology. People usually get into it because they love animals and such. It is not completely impossible for someone in this field to lie to cover up but now it is just your personal distaste against zoos and human kind vs several very well trained people on the field... As I said, I am not a big fan of zoos either and somewhat undecided about conservatories (which is what "Edinburgh Zoo" actually is) but that does not make people working there terrible lying scum bags.
You're doing good work. It seems as though the only people who still appreciate actual expertise, are the experts themselves. Nobody can discern fiction from reality anymore.