244
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
244 points (95.2% liked)
News
23599 readers
3447 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
You can only achieve a fair and civil society through fairness and civility. That is what (most of) the democrats have been working on for the last 50 years.
It's always tempting to think that you could "defeat" evil through violence, repression, suppression, and exclusion. Instead, you only become it.
edit: I really don't mean to lecture here. I wrote this because I saw myself in the comment I replied to, and I needed to remind myself to be kind.
Everyone loves invoking the paradox of tolerance because it makes you sound smart and progressive.
Paradoxically, it's most often used as an excuse to be intolerant of some group that you have arbitrarily branded as intolerant.
I hereby pronounce you intolerant, thereby according to the docterine of the paradox of tolerance you are forthwith stripped of your right to be tolerated.
As always, the problem is nuanced and you need to consider carefully the extent to which you're willing to tolerate what level of intolerance under what circumstances.
Good job ignoring the part about arbitrary labels.
You understand that every conservative would use all sorts of labels to describe you right? Trump would refer to you as "the radical left". He would also say you're intolerant of his followers.
It takes a complete lack of self awareness to think that no one would label you in the same way you label others. Well done.
The label isn't arbitrary when you've earned it by how you act. You have decided to arbitrarily label your opponent here as "intolerable" based on no evidence. Conservatives at large have been labeled "intolerable" based on their abject refusal to support basic protections of human rights and safety, bad-faith arguments, bait and switching, lying directly to the faces of their constituents as well as to other lawmakers who require an assumption of trust in order to operate, and actively and frequently calling for violence and murder against non-violent members of the out-group.
Your rights end where mine begin and vice versa, and overstepping those bounds causes the social contract to be voided. When you void your own social contract then you are personally responsible for whatever happens outside of the protection of that contract. Don't want to get punched in the face? It's real easy then, don't tell me that my sister deserves to be murdered. Like will be met with like.
This sentence contains the problem discussed at length in the wikipedia article and addressed in my original comment.
You've made a sweeping generalisation about conservatives, by applying a range of very specific behaviors to an entire out-group in a categorical and binary way.
To really dumb it down, some conservatives might just be idiots, and not actually intolerant. You're seeking to weild the paradox of intolerance against them.
Whether or not you're an idiot has little bearing on whether or not you're able to treat other human beings like human beings. The golden rule is taught to preschoolers and they pick it up just fine. If someone's argument regarding being a bigoted liar is "I'm actually too stupid to understand what tolerance means", I have zero sympathy for them. "Keep out of my business and I'll keep out of yours" is a concept so simple that animals understand it. You're god damn right I'm going to wield the paradox of tolerance against idiots, because regardless of whether or not you're doing it out of spite or doing it out of stupidity, you're breaking the social contract and you will reap the consequences of such. If you're so abjectly stupid that you don't know what human rights are or how to respect them, then you have a duty both as a citizen and as a human being to educate yourself, and failure to do so excuses nothing.
You seem genuinely oblivious to how intolerant you are.
As though you have a list of "social crimes" and when you, being the judge and jury, find someone guilty of being intolerant they're green lit to be "untolerated".
This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that the paradox of tolerance is mostly used as justification for not tolerating people you personally deem to be intolerant.
If protecting the innocent from evil that will exploit them for its own gain makes me a bad person, then I just guess I'll see you in hell, motherfucker.
Exactly what a trump follower would say.
Ah, excellent, we've fallen all the way to ad hominem now. I already knew that you didn't know what you were talking about but it's always fun when you continue speaking long enough to remove all doubt.
This conversation is over, and I wish you a long happy life seeing all the ways you are wrong. We will not speak again. History will speak for me.
God that's cringey. Do you practice that in the mirror? "We will not speak again. History will speak for me." What does that even mean?
History will probably confirm that Americans on both sides of the political divide have become less tolerant, and find silly ways to justify their intolerance while being completely unable to acknowledge their own shortcomings.
My comment isn't a personal attack. I was trying to demonstrate the problem with you using the paradox of intolerance as an excuse to be intolerant. While you're using the paradox to be intolerant of out-group, out-group is doing the same to you.
Nazis and proud boys often self-identify. And still enjoy the respect and understanding that centrists deny to anyone on their left.
And some of you don't overtly self-identify.