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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

As the title states I am confused on this matter. The way I see it, the USA has a two party system and in the next few weeks they’re either going to have Trump or Harris as president, come inauguration day. With this in mind doesn’t it make sense to vote for the person least likely to escalate the situation even more.

Giving your vote to an independent or worse not voting at all, just gives more of a chance for Trump to win the election and then who knows what crazy stuff he will allow, or encourage, Israel to get away with.

I really don’t get the logic. As sure nobody wants to vote for a party allowing these heinous crimes to be committed, but given you’re getting one of them shouldn’t you be voting for the one that will be the least horrible of the two.

Please don’t come at me with pro-Israeli rhetoric as this isn’t the post for that, I’m asking about why people would make such choices and I’m not up for debate on the Middle East, on this post, you can DM me for that.

Edit: Bedtime here now so will respond to incoming comments in the morning, love starting the day with an inbox full 😊.

Edit 2: This blew up, it’s a little overwhelming right now but I do intent on replying to everybody that took the time to comment. Just need to get in the right headspace.

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[-] Drusas@fedia.io 53 points 2 months ago

They believe that taking a moral stand against the Democrats, who are supporting Israeli genocide, is worth it even if that means that Trump, who even more fervently supports Israeli genocide, becomes president.

[-] HorseRabbit@lemmy.sdf.org 23 points 2 months ago

Describe "even more"? In what specific material ways would trump increase support for Israel?

[-] Drusas@fedia.io 2 points 1 month ago

Trump has been deliberately framing himself as a protector of Israel who supports them doing whatever they want to.

[-] coolusername@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 months ago
[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago

Even calling it "Israeli genocide" is transferring responsibility. "Supporting" is an understatement. The democrats ARE THE ONES DOING THE GENOCIDE. Biden can stop it with a single phone call. Israel is not an independent state; it is a subordinate of the US.

Telling people to vote for your party, a nazi party, at the absolute peak of your depraved inhuman bloodthirst, because the other side might be worse, is the most cynical fucking thing I've ever heard.

[-] abbenm@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I genuinely do believe we're going to look back this time as inexcusable. Right now, Netanyahu's extreme right flank is now advocating for settlement of the parts of Gaza that have been ethnically cleansed. Specifically, they're saying that as long as the army stays there for a permanent long-term occupation, that can be the first step to proceeding with settlements.

It's so much worse than even the Iraq war. I've seen by some estimates that the Iraq war displaced 2 million people, and the deaths, before they stopped counting, were between 100,000 and a quarter million.

I think the deaths and displacements in Gaza probably are going to exceed those, and it's concentrated in a much smaller area, and it's horrifyingly closer to affecting the whole population.

Simply put there's no excuse for this moral atrocity.

And here's the but: I don't see how a strategic attitude of indifference to who runs the State department brings it closer to an end. And I don't see that that attitude is one of even pretending to try for an alternative. I do think supporting politicians especially in their Democratic primaries is a positive step. And I do think, as with the Iraq war, galvanizing a sea change and discrediting everyone who is associated with what happened in Gaza is necessary. I believe it is urgent to do something, and the actual channels of aid that can meaningfully do something right now exist entirely outside of party infrastructure of either party. But I also think, for how true that is, using that to lose sight a very real and very serious differences between the parties that also affect human welfare in numerous ways, would be to needlessly visit tragedy upon tragedy. I wouldn't want to lose American democracy into the bargain, and I don't think it's nuanced to be in indifferent to that.

[-] coolusername@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 months ago

it's the greater Israel project. they openly talk about it

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago

tl;dr: "Can't beat them, might as well join them!"

[-] abbenm@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Nope, not even close to what I said.

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I honestly appreciate the downvotes as a counter of angry people shamed into silence

Good. You should be fucking ashamed.

[-] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

As I said, I want to personally thank you and your ilk for Trump winning this election.

Congratulations. You let the fascists win to “stick it to the libs”

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

Oh please. As if my actions were for petty spite and not the actual reasons I stated. As if the focus of my anger is dipshits like you and not the people with the actual blood on their hands? You annoy the fuck out of me but my hatred isn't directed at you.

That said, I think it's fucking good you're pissed off and upset. You deserve to be. You did a terrible thing. And you didn't even get what you sold out your basic human decency for. Not to mention selling out people having their entire families killed day after day. Now you're a nazi and a loser. How does it feel?

My fault? I fucking wish. The democrats did such a deliberately dogshit job with such a dogshit candidate leftists (and the muslims that will never forget your vicious racism towards them) were a fraction of the votes they threw away. I don't even live in one of the two states that even had a realistic claim to a vote in this election. Why are you getting upset at people for not voting when you don't even live in a real democracy in the first place?

Your anger needs to be directed at the political system itself. God I wish people like you would stop and have a sober assessment of what the democratic party does and why. You're angry because the people committing a genocide lost because that means the fascists won?? Are you fucking hearing yourself?? By any semi-rigorous definition of the word, the democratic party are fascists. When BLM happened they brutalized the protestors and responded on the backend by ballooning the police state. (The budget at least even if they can't find recruits). Fascism is capitalism in decay discarding the soft power that keeps people in line and resorting to the tactics that work on the imperial periphery against the domestic population.

You cannot vote fascism out of a fascist country. The frustration you feel right now is built into the system. This is the only outcome you're ever going to get. I'm glad you're feeling it right now. I wish you still felt it when Biden was doing literally fucking everything Trump was doing and will now continue to. Please take this time to reassess your political understanding. You will never save yourself with voting.

[-] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 month ago

Blah blah. You helped Trump. Blocked.

[-] Drusas@fedia.io -1 points 1 month ago

Yeah, you're misreading that.

[-] Mechaguana@programming.dev -1 points 2 months ago

Yeah the "democrats are the REAL nazis" is tiring when you get comments from the republican hero agent Orange: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/10/trump-military-generals-hitler/680327/

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 months ago

Shut the fuck up. I never said the republicans weren't nazis. I'm just fucking sick of you being an out and open nazi and acting like you fucking aren't.

[-] tangentism@beehaw.org 10 points 2 months ago

Their tiny liberal brains can't handle anything that isn't a binary choice.

They have fully accepted, absorbed and now spout George W Bush's slogan of "You're either with us or with the terrorists" without any irony that they are the terrorists!

[-] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 months ago

So when Trump wins and my rights to exist are stripped even further, I’ll be sure to thank you for it

[-] within_epsilon@beehaw.org 8 points 2 months ago

Republicans and Democrats were unable to stop legislation from the Judiciary with Roe v. Wade and later Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. Super PAC's donate multiple lifetimes of dollars to Presidential candidates in a quid pro quo system protected by the first amendment under Citizens United v. FEC. Americans outside the oligarchy will never exhibit their influence.

If oligarchs find your existence icky, they have the power to remove your "right" to exist. You lack the power to prevent it. Instead of thanking anyone, I suggest we take the power back. Punch up.

[-] verdigris@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 month ago

Voting doesn't affect your ability to do other activism.

[-] within_epsilon@beehaw.org 2 points 1 month ago

Agreed. Voting shouldn't be the only activism we are involved in. My comment was about solidarity against the oligarchs that can decide to make life harder for people they deem icky.

[-] peppers_ghost@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago

The dems are not bringing your rights back. Project 2025 is happening regardless of who wins president due to how captured the court system is.

[-] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 1 points 1 month ago

Everything is always about YOU 🤡

Pathetic...

[-] coolusername@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 months ago
[-] azulavoir@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago

Every vote or lack thereof is a vote for genocide. There isn't really a way to vote against it.

[-] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz -1 points 2 months ago

the most cynical fucking thing I've ever heard.

Yes, it's cynical. It's based on the jaded belief that democracy is 90% dead, and Americans only get to make one of two meaningful choices.

The opposite belief, which is that America is a democracy and you can vote for whoever you want, is hopeful and patriotic. It puts a lot of trust in the American system. It shows faith that politicians have our best interests at heart, and that it'll all work out if you just say what you want.

Is that how you want to describe yourself? As a patriot who believes in America? It doesn't seem to align with your worldview, but it's what your actions are saying.

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago

you're a silly one

this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024
314 points (82.0% liked)

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