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‘They will vote against Harris’: Arab Americans in Michigan desert Democrats over Gaza
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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United States | News & Politics
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I feel like the lesser of two evils argument fails at the point of literal genocide and war crimes including intentional strikes on aid workers explicitly approved by the Biden regime. I'm sure Trump won't be better, but it's hard to see how he can be worse. They're burning hospital patients alive in their beds. Asking a Muslim to support this genocidal DNC while they are being genocided is honestly the perfect encapsulation of the "it's your fault you don't want to vote for our shitty do nothing but evil party" logic that has destroyed the democratic brand and empowered a GOP in chaos, who would be losing to a more competently managed party right now.
Some people can’t/refuse to comprehend that this was the Democrats race to lose. The same was true in 2016, and just like then, they will blame anyone but their own party. They’ll do anything but look in the mirror.
How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately "elevated" Donald Trump with its "pied piper" strategy
Yes, I love how with no other thing do these people understand that THEY, not Jill Stein or Bernie Sander or Russia are why they lose. A minimally functional DNC would be CLEANING Trump's CLOCK right now, his coalition's in chaos, his policy proposals are unpopular, the DNC has a lack of economy issue polling problem I haven't seen in FOREVER, which speaks to people thinking "You're the FDR party, and the party who stopped the Nazi genocide, can't you save us now?" And the answer is MORE CHENEY!!!! And MORE GENOCIDE!!!!
The New Deal was an attempt to save capitalism from the threat of socialist revolution. The Great Depression left the working class in grave financial straits, and socialism was a foreign & domestic threat. This was before the socialists were purged from labor unions, before the Cold War and the House Committee on Un-American Activities. The Democratic Party didn’t make concessions to the working class out of the kindness of its heart.
Over decades, those temporary concessions have eroded along with any threats to the capital order: the collapse of the Soviet Union and the rise the US’s neocolonial hegemony; the end of history. The Democratic party is to the right of Reagan now, and some in the Republican party are itching to remove even the trappings of democracy.
Yup, social democracy and unions were concessions capitalism stopped making once there was no competing ideology after the collapse of communism (current Chinese "Communism" isn't even Fascism as that still had SOME social benefits). I do still think our best hope is do what we did with FDR which is "I don't care about your shitty party, give us material long term policy concessions, and then we can talk"
Not to imply that China is a utopia—as none can exist—but most of our understanding of it comes filtered through Cold War II propaganda, which, in the rear-view mirror, will look about as ham-fisted as the first Cold War’s propaganda does now.
Trump stated earlier this year that if re-elected, he would ask Israel to make the Gaza issue "go away" in under a week. It's one thing to be supplying the weapons, but quite another to have the most powerful country give their approval to do whatever it takes to end the conflict to Israel's benefit. There was a Palestinian newspaper article I saw a couple months ago that gave the opinion that under Harris they would get bombed, but under Trump they would cease to exist. Of course when I linked that in a similar discussion I was accused a picking my sources, because hey what does a Palestinian newspaper know about Palestine?
Israel already has approval! The arguments on the phone are kabuki theater
Trump says a lot of stuff. It's usually awful. But he's not much of a do-er, so I don't think anyone can say exactly what he'd do different (the McGurk monster who is running all of this is a literal Trump first term holdover, so probably the same rabid dog would run the genocide either way). Biden is giving Israel explicit permission for all of this, including striking aid workers. Genocide Joe pretending he's not fully supportive of this doesn't un-burn-alive anyone. Words are wind. War crimes are war crimes. You can't be the "lesser" evil perpetrating a genocide.
Agreed that we don't know unless he's given the chance to try something, but it's not exactly something I'd like to "fuck around and find out". There have been a lot of reports from people who were on his team during his last term that are talking about how he was talked down from extreme actions, and this time his people already know what they're getting in to and are ok with it. I can only hope Harris can be better than Biden, but we do know Trump was willing to let his own nation (California) burn just because they didn't all vote for him.
Only you can decide for yourself what creates enough urgency for you to support a pro-genocide political party. For me there's nothing. I can't control the moral or amoral actions of others but I can control my own. I will not be a party to genocide. Period.
Voting third-party could lead to Trump winning. He has already stated he will cut all support to Ukraine, which also leads to genocide, not to mention what he is threatening to do to everyone of color here at home. Face it, no matter how you vote, you're going to be a party to genocide. The only available option is to vote in favor of the least amount of damage being threatened by all parties. Yes, even Jill Stein is a problem here because her stated purpose is to spoil the Democrat vote (which leads me to distrust her "concerns" over Gaza even if she does have a history of voting against Israel).
Besides which, if you're a US citizen then you've been a party to genocide your entire life, between our direct interference in the elections of other countries, to straight-up installing leaders of our choice, to simply withholding aid to civilians because our government didn't want to step on any toes. You're living the good life because our nation kills people for profit, so don't pretend like you're not already a party to it.
Well, depending on my tax bracket, which I'm not revealing to you, I may spend a LOT of money on Israel and not benefiting as a party of it -- at the height of the British Empire, the average British household wealth wasn't much more than India. The left heel can grind one population while the right heel grinds another and all the profits go up and to neither heel, thus global worker solidarity. I also don't care if Trump wins. Biden has murdered hundreds of thousands and started a process that will kill millions if not lead to WWIII... With recent events the formerly magic words "antisemitism" and "Trump bad" have lost all power
This sure does read a lot like MAGAts saying "he doesn't mean it like that" *when he has repeatedly demonstrated he means the thing he saidď
I'm sure he means it, I also know he's kind of a mess and there being no philosophical underpinning to his movement beyond him won't lend itself to an effective administration when he's out to lunch even more than last time.
You wanna know how he’ll be worse. You’re going to prison for this post. And you’ll ‘never have to vote again’ for any choice ever. He’s straight up fucking said it. This level of stupidity is un-fucking-fathomable.
Okay, support a genocide out of fear. I won't do that. If I go to jail for that, it is what it is. Only YOU can debase yourself by becoming evil out of fear.