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this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2024
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You're taking the wrong lesson from these findings.
I was joking. Just like you can't be seriously claiming there is no consensus that the bot sucks and that all the net downvotes for that bot are due to a small minority of sockpuppeteers?
I didn't claim there was no consensus, or that "all" the downvotes were sockpuppets. We have evidence that some of them were, which makes distilling the overall sentiment pretty difficult.
So based on your other comment, the "evidence" you're referring to here is merely that vote manipulation had occurred in some other community?
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Ok, but you did claim that you had evidence that some of the downvotes were sockpuppets, contrary to the analysis discussed in this comment.
Yeah, we were told they disrupted a downvote ring. I have no fucking idea where those accounts voted, except that we took vote totals with a grain of salt because we were in the dark. I'm frankly used to being bombarded with downvotes every time i comment in this community (edit: One person went out of their way to downvote each of my last 7 comments, for example.). So in my eyes, votes were (and continue to be) compromised, and we were informed about the ring while we were deliberating bot feedback. I tried to connect the dots with incomplete information because I'm not an admin. What else are you looking for here?
Well, the point I've been trying to make is that on balance, mods have been reluctant to engage with negative feedback, and I think this is a salient example.
I think you can imagine how, from the perspective of a community member, it would feel like you've started with the belief that the bot is good, and sought feedback in that context.
The erroneous assumption you've made regarding vote manipulation is a pretty clear example of that.
This is what I mean by users feeling as though their opinions have been dismissed.
I argued against the bot for a week. I hated the damn thing, and I pointed to the negative feedback as evidence in my discussions. I also held off on making sweeping assessments or making any rushed decisions because a vote manipulation ring was simultaneously uncovered, and we had no idea how deep the manipulation went. Could the feedback have been manipulated? No idea! Should we go by votes only? No idea!
I took the time to let the team read the feedback and discuss the costs and benefits, and in the end the votes were only part of the picture. Another part is the visceral commitment of a vocal minority to overwhelming the community with commentary (and reports) to such an extent that the people who are calm and supportive get drowned out and downvoted, along with anyone who happens to agree with them. Not entirely sure those folks have committed as much energy to downvoting every critical comment as was the case on the other side though.
The team took 12 days to work through disagreements (there were many) so we could come to a consensus position, and lo and behold, the bot is gone. The fact that the people who want the bot gone feel like they're being dismissed is flabbergasting to me. It's gone. Mission accomplished!
Ok mate. I appreciate you taking the time.
I get that everyone on the mod team seems well intentioned, and trying to navigate this situation as best they can as volunteers, with limited resources and limited control.