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this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2024
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Better: just learn to live with not feeling satiated all the time.
Not that you shouldn't make vegies a significant part of your diet, just that a big part of the lifestyle change is learning to be hungry between meals as a normal and non-distressing thing.
That's a more complicated topic. Not everyone's endocrine system is wired the same way, and you can't always just willpower your way through it.
Insistence that willpower is sufficient for weight regulation is a big cause of people going on diet after diet that just doesn't work. They're fighting against the system that has a disproportionate influence on what you want in the first place, and if you push it too far you find yourself not giving a shit about your diet, and then being filled with a slew of complex feelings coming from your "lack of self control".
It's better to direct that energy towards getting your diet compositionally right than trying to be okay just being hungry.
You can't get your body to stop insisting it needs food, but you can get it to insist less often. You can teach it that it doesn't need "SUGAR", it needs water and maybe an apple or banana. You can give it a little solid protein between meals to keep it from asking for a continuous stream of carbs.
You can learn to identify the difference between eating because you're bored or want a little dopamine, and eating because you're hungry. The first one is your brain and you can willpower through it to eventually unlearn the habit.
You can choose to make good choices at the store instead of failing to make them in the kitchen.
Willpower is critical, but it's important to know what you can or cannot actually solve with it and work within that framework.
You're in control of your body, but that doesn't mean that you need to pick the harder path.
And, for some people, their endocrine system is a lot more forgiving. Those usually aren't the people who have a lot of trouble loosing or keeping off weight because they try to just "eat less" and it works.
I am all about keeping it sustainable; nobody has willpower longterm. Any fool can come up with a diet of rabbit food and have amazing results for a month before their brain goes postal on them and they start inhaling cheeseburgers nonstop. Trust me, I totally get that. We always attribute vast reserves of motivation and discipline to ourselves that we just don't have, and the results aren't pretty.
But on the other side of the coin, your brain can get stuck in a short-term reward loop, and it howls blue murder when you first try to break out of it.
I'm an stress-eater and a boredom-eater, and if the loop gets out of control, not constantly snacking becomes stressful in and of itself, and yeah that's a complete trainwreck.
But what I've found is that after a surprisingly short time of acclimating yourself to controlled amounts of hunger, you can break that loop. Your brain re-learns the difference between not-full and actually-need-calories, and only sees the latter as a problem.
What started out feeling like a catastrophe that you had to white-knuckle through just turns into a boring fact that takes little to no willpower at all to put up with at all.
It's a really good investment of effort, and makes the whole process a lot easier.
Yup, I would definitely agree more with what you're saying here than what I understood from above.
It definitely takes willpower to lose weight, and you definitely need to learn to identify why you're eating and break those habits you don't want, which also takes willpower.
I would characterize boredom/stress/comfort eating differently than hunger, since there's the distinction between "want to eat" and "feel hungry".
Whatever your reason is for wanting to eat, you need to handle it. If it's boredom, you can use willpower to push through chips being more interesting than the show you're watching, ideally by doing something else.
If you want to eat because you're hungry, there isn't a way to handle that beyond eating. So the smart move is to make choices about what and how you eat so that feeling stays away longer, which goes a long way towards helping to break the habit of feeling like you're "supposed" to eat more often than you need to.
I think you're initial comment came across much stronger than I see it is now, and we're actually very close in terms opinion. :)
Thank you so much for both your posts I’m actually literally going through the exact same thing right now - Also a boredom and stress eater trying to get used to being hungry and honestly I enjoy the process of being hungry and denying myself bullshit food because I know it’s bullshit and a big part of my brain seems to agree and kick in just as you said. It’s a very freeing feeling!!!
I do most of my dieting at the store, I dislike spending money, so it's really easy to avoid the crap there.
For me it's all about the list. I'm opposed to spending money in general, but I also enjoy, and am pretty good at, cooking.
If I don't have a good list, my weakness is to start designing meals based on random ingredients I see at the store, and then I buy the stuff, go home and cook the food, and enjoy too much of it. Beyond eating too much of it, it's just tricky to design a good dish that's tasty and also not silly unhealthy while standing in the grocery store.
Took a bit to learn to make a note of the idea in my phone, and then design it at home. Then it can go on the list.
Thanks for saying this. I think the idea that it is just willpower causes so much unnecessary suffering. As someone suffering from an eating disorder and thyroid disease, I was getting a bit down reading all the "it's just calories in vs calories out" remarks. It is so much more complicated than that.
For many, many folk, it is simply cal in vs out.
If you've some condition that affects metabolism, then yes, that sort of advice is not the best.
It's calorie in/out in the thermodynamics sense, but humans are far too complicated to meaningfully model as a thermodynamic system.
Just doing calorie in/out dieting really doesn't work for most people. That's why you need to combine it with behavioral changes, strategies to change habits and attitudes towards food, which usually also involves changing what you eat and when so the downsides of eating less are less bothersome.
I think for most people it is not the best advice. In most cases, there are many other factors at play than just willpower and "calories in vs calories out". Obesity should be viewed and treated more like a disease, because it is. If you are interested, I can link you some interesting papers on this.
Maybe I’ll just fill up on rice cakes
Aren't those low-fiber and high carb?
As mentioned in a handful of other comments, it's all about choices. Rice cakes are usually all carbs, low fiber, but they're also close to puffed nothing.
So if you know that you're gonna snack despite doing everything else right, choosing salted rice cakes over chips is a good choice, and if a snack option keeps you from feeling miserable while loosing weight, you're more likely to stick with it and get to your goals.
Maybe not as fast as if you hadn't snacked at all, but an attainable goal is better.
Ok, a pro-ricecake comment from an actual rice cake. Sounds suspicious! 😄
Ones that do not add flavoring with calories, ones seasoned with salt, and some garlic, or herbs, for example, only have 35 calories. White rice cakes are similar to white rice in glycemic index, however they create a lot of bulk, help sate cravings for snack foods, and likely won't harm you unless you have a predisposition to blood sugar regulation issues. Brown rice cakes are much lower in glycemic index, and have more nutrients. So, if you like the taste go with brown, though white rice cakes are better than the vast majority of foods that can give you a replacement for salty, crunchy, snack foods.
Everybody is different so advice varies. For instance, some people do very well with carbs and grains. Other people's bodies scavenge every carb and store it as fat so a high fiber, high fat diet works better for them since fat is satiating and a source of energy, Contrary to popular opinion fat does not make you fat unless it is combined with carbs, like a hamburger bun, fries and large Coke. Then again this only applies to good fats like salmon, sardines, olive oil and grass-fed meat, not the rancid vegetable oil that are pushed on us today - they actually cause allergy problems that contribute to weight gain. The 350 pound lady is starving because her system stored all the carbs she ate - your body needs about a teaspoon of sugar in its system to run and she doesn't have enough in her system to run her body.
Good fats moderate a lot of metabolism problems for a certain groups of people. Our whole food industry is based on selling carbs. Try to buy food that aren't carbed up - it isn't easy. No wonder we have a weight problem in this country. Hungry? Try cutting carbs way back, increasing fiber and good fats - don't forget potatoes, carrots and most fall crops in general tend to be high carb foods so eat salads, cabbage and leafy greens with olive oil and vinegar dressing, for instance. Carb addiction is real so give your diet change some time. Oh yeah, stay away from processed foods - they contribute to weight gain too. Again, this may not apply to you in the least, but forget the old carbs in, carbs burned shit. It simply doesn't apply to some people.
This is a joke, right?
Insistence that willpower is sufficient for weight regulation is a big cause of people going on diet after diet that just doesn't work.
No, that's caused by a specific lack of willpower. Going on diet after diet is exactly why focusing on being ok with being hungry is so important.
Get a clue.
And people should just "choose to be happy" too, right?
Learn how biology works. Willpower helps you execute a a desire even when it's uncomfortable. Your hormonal systems control what you desire in the first place. If you're just trying to ignore your body, it will eventually inform you that you no longer care about weight loss.
Willpower based diets and weigh loss strategies are mostly driven by people who sell them who take advantage of the "intuitive" nature of what boils down to "don't eat even if you're hungry".
If you do lose some weight, which you likely will at first, it's because the diet works. If you don't or you fall out of adherence, it's because you're not good enough.
That's why essentially all research on the topic says you should use your willpower to change what you eat and your activity level, and let those drive the weight loss.
It's easier and more effective to use your willpower to make positive choices than it is to enforce restrictions on yourself.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10015774/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/health-and-human-nature/202109/finding-the-self-control-lose-weight
Next time you need to get more done, just try sleeping less and you'll have a whole six or seven more hours a day to work.
You definitely won't spend your time being distracted by how tired your are, or spending more time thinking about sleep than if you had spent less effort and willpower on making a schedule that made better time management choices.
You had a distinct lack of willpower, you lacked the willpower to be nice to someone.
He's saying what you're attributing to "a specific lack of willpower" now has scientific backing that disagrees. Your take is old school and misinformed if the current science is correct. I personally haven't done research on the subject or read many studies but Adam Ragusea, a YouTube food science journalist covers this concept in one of his vids and several podcasts surrounding food science and (in my case) the drugs coming down the pipeline to regulate body weight touch on the research as well.
Precisely. And to be entirely clear: it will always take willpower and motivation to lose weight. Your body is thought to have a sort of target weight that it wants you to be at all else being equal. If it were effortless to maintain a healthy weight, it would be because that's where your body was pushing you to be.
The key is not to be stronger than your body, but to work with it. Use your finite supply of willpower on things like "making a healthy shopping list and not deviating from it".
Instead of insisting you need to "not be lazy" and always cook a healthy meal at home, be realistic and accept that sometimes you'll be tired and have a lazy dinner option that's a better choice than pizza.
Buy apples instead of Oreos, so that when you feel hungry between meals it isn't a choice between feeling hungry and eating a sleeve of Oreos, but just eating an apple. You'll feel more full after the apple than after 20 times more calories in Oreos. If you choose to be hungry, you'll be aware of being hungry and food in general until you eat, which will likely either make you fail hard, or eat more at the next meal because food is more appealing when you're hungry.
It can also take a lot of motivation to work through which desires to eat are hunger, which are boredom and which are, of all things, thirst. Eating is a source of dopamine, and so if you're bored "food" is an easy source of entertainment (your body is so dumb that just chewing is often enough for it, hence "gum" is pleasant). Sometimes your body asks for sugar when what it needs is water.
"You" don't control what "you" want, you just get to figure out how to get it. A deeper, vastly stupider, part just shouts vague demands you get to act on. "WATER. FOOD. SEX. SLEEP. SCARED. BORED." it doesn't stop shouting if you ignore it. So use your willpower to give it what it wants in the healthier but more difficult way, and to make doing so a habit that it won't veto.
And that's before you get to things that need a medical intervention in addition to behavioral.
If your pancreas or hypothalamus have decided to be shits, there's absolutely no amount of willpower that can regulate things.
Learning to cope with discomfort is a very important, and very often disregarded, life skill.
Not really. Especially when talking about physical pain.
You should not be in discomfort all the time. This is the kind of thinking that prevents people from going to the doctor. Pain isn't normal.
Part of it is identifying differences between discomforts. Feel a little hungry? No big deal.
Feel sharp stabbing pains? See a doctor, dummy.
I get the point of your post but also, pain is normal. And not every pain requires medical intervention.
And it's also good to remember in our modern lives, it's often just a feeling more than a state of being.
It'll tell you you're hungry just because it's the time of day you normally eat. It'll tell you you're hungry when you really just need a drink of water.
Also, it can take up to a year for your brain to adjust to a lower calorie diet.
I'd argue we should be 'grazing' more. Not just accept feeling bad.
I think we eat too much in one sitting. It should be spread out more.
Every couple hours we should be adding energy to our reserves not waiting 6+ hours.
Plus the feeeling of being hungry between meals goes away after a few months if you are still getting what you body needs.
This. Really. If it actually hurts to get hungry perhaps you have Helicobacter pylori. Let that get sorted out.
GERD can also cause nausea when the stomach is empty. If I wait too long to eat, I become too nauseous to want to eat.
Mentally swapping the urge to be hydrated for the urge to be full was a game changer for me, and I wish there was one cool trick I could share but it was trial and error for me.
I'm pretty skinny, but I hate being hungry. I wish I were better about tolerating hunger, and it's something I could work on, but it's not a requisite skill. Just in case that's useful info for somebody.
Ricecake's comment is great. Wanting to eat is also often not actually hunger, and being able to distinguish between sensations is a skill. For example, I always think I'm really hungry the days before menstruating, and I do eat more, but often it's stomach cramps and hormonal changes that food does not satisfy. You'd be surprised at how long it's taken to see that pattern.
I find that when food just isn't working to abate hunger, what I actually need is salt.
Couple of fingers of jalapeno brine, the relief is incredible.
You're saying people should just deal with hunger and fight against everything evolution wants, instead of just eating high fiber food and not being hungry...
How is that "better"?
Evolution's impact on our hunger was driven by scarcity. Most humans don't experience the levels of scarcity that drove that evolution.
So, yes, you should work against evolution. This is true for a lot of aspects of the human condition.
Except, and this is what I think they were saying, your body is wired to demand food even if it doesn't strictly need it. You can't win that battle long term.
Instead you work with your dumb meat sack and eat healthy foods that keep you from feeling hungry for a longer time.
If your diet strategy involves almost everyone who tries it failing, and those who succeed almost always have their progress backslide in a few years, then maybe the problem is with the strategy rather than an intrinsic character flaw in the people trying it.
Evolution isn't divine, it's random mutation that generally benefits it's current environment. Considering most of our evolutionary traits emerged thousands, if not millions, of years ago... I'd say we can safely conclude that a lot of our evolutionary instincts aren't especially relevant to our current circumstances.
The eating issue is less evolution and more societal.
Society is the one who says we should eat 3 meals a day, not evolution.
Evolution would rather we ate more often throughout the day.
Think of it like a gas tank. Currently people fill it up and wait for it to get empty before filling up again.
When the reality is its better to always keep a half a tank for emergencies.
Evolution would rather we eat as much as possible, cause who knows when our next meal will be.