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submitted 3 months ago by Martineski@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone

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[-] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 61 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

< rant >

Since WWII, we've taken all our interrogation cues from this guy, who was so effective at getting information from POWs and enemy agents that his methods inform modern techniques in the industrial world.

We knew all this well before the whole Abu Ghraib controversy in 2003 and CIA's Extrajudicial Detention and Enhanced Interrogation program, as did the very guys who developed the program.

So they not only committed crimes against humanity, but can't even fall back on justifications of war. During the international war on terror, the US tortured POWs, civilians and even Americans because some rich people and officials wanted Arab Muslims to suffer for their own gratification, and no other reason.

It was the moment that I realized the US (my own country) are, in fact, the baddies.

Yes, CIA did engage in some irregular interrogation methods during the cold war, often in dealing with counter-espionage situations, but even then it wasn't regarded as an acceptable torture method. KGB, similarly, at least once fed a caught mole feet first into a blast furnace while the rest of the staff watched. It sent a message but fucked morale for weeks.

Torturing others reminds us we human beings are still beasts who sometimes pretend to be civilized but still can't help ourselves but go on our feelies, often showing the world just how sore a loser we can be. We have to try harder, maybe get clever, to do better.

< /rant >

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I would quibble here and say that torture is actually an incredibly civilised act. I mean this not as an endorsement, but rather in the sense that only highly 'civilised' societies appear to have every carried out systematic torture. It seems to require a great deal of centralised, bureaucratic control in order to prevent instincts like empathy from preventing it.

It's also worth pointing out that torture, as defined in a UN convention that is pretty broadly ratified is much broader than we normally think of it. It is defined as follows:

For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

Which I think is food for thought. Portrail of torture is incredibly systemic in media, and I think we are numbed to it a great deal although I don't know which way causality goes there. How many of you have seen cops handling someone roughly with the intent to hurt them or intimidating someone to make them pliable as routine 'justice'? That is literally torture by a convention that it is highly likely the country they work for has ratified.

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

After watching this video I can't stop pointing up every time there is a normalized torture scene on some series of movie im watching.

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 3 months ago

Great watch, thanks for the recommendation.

[-] GeneralVincent@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago

What an interesting read, thank you for the link!

I'd encourage everyone to read more about his life before and after becoming an interrogator, but I found a tl:dr of his methods

The Scharff Technique was defined by four key components: 1) a friendly approach, 2) not pressing for information, 3) the illusion of knowing it all, and 4) the confirmation/disconfirmation tactic. (The latter strategy is when an interrogator presents a claim in the hope that the prisoner will confirm or disconfirm it—it’s what Scharff used to learn about the tracer bullets.)