GamingChairModel

joined 2 years ago
[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 0 points 4 hours ago

Do you mean the actual packaging of silicon dies and putting them into DIMMs? Yeah, they had to revert back, but that's because a lot of the memory silicon that's only good for DDR4 never shut down, and any silicon memory that is good for DDR5 is also getting claimed up for non-DIMM memory (e.g., memory packaged with logic chips rather than sitting on its own package in a DIMM or even soldered to the board).

Basically, previous generations' silicon fabrication tech is still going, and there are still buyers of that last generation product.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

The business model should be that with economies of scale they could provide compute much cheaper than average consumer can buy to run locally.

That business model assumes that the huge cloud models will always maintain a gap worth paying for, compared to the local models. I'm just not convinced that the average consumer will need cloud models for summarizing their emails or the news of the day.

And for actual costs of their data centers, there literally aren't enough humans in the world where $20/month AI spending per person will help them break even. They'll need to sell big accounts (many businesses spending billions per year) in order to break even.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

There's just no way to pay for the cost of these services, though.

When someone constructs a 100 MW data center (now considered a smaller one for new construction), that's about $2 billion in total costs to outfit the whole operation. And then once it's on, we're talking something like $10-20 million/month in electricity alone, and a few million in other costs. How many $20 subscriptions do you need to sell just to break even with your operating expenses? How many $100/month subscriptions do you need to sell to make a dent on your interest payments on the construction? Will there be a market for $1000/month subscriptions from millions of customers? If not, how's this all going to be paid for?

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 5 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Once you get into things with useful generation and large context windows, or things like video generation, suddenly you need one or more $10,000+ pieces of hardware to run it.

A Blackwell server with 72 GPUs costs about $3 million, plus requires 130 kW of power (about 3 residential homes' max rated power through a residential 200A circuit box, for about $600-$1000/day in electricity cost).

You're gonna need to sell a lot of $20/month subscriptions to get that paid for, assuming that the server is good for 5 years. If it's only good for 3 years, the economics are basically impossible.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Because the factories are already set up to make DDR4. Retooling to make DDR5 will cost a lot of money and take a lot of downtime for which the factory isn't making anything. So the companies are extending the life cycle of the DDR4 production lines, without needing to upgrade things or retrain workers. As long as people are buying it, then there's money to be made by staying open.

It's like being the burger restaurant next to the steak restaurant when the line for the steak restaurant is 3 hours long. You'll get a lot of spillover from people who don't want to wait, and you can benefit from that without necessarily turning into a steak restaurant yourself.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world -3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Driver facing camera systems can be consistent with privacy, as long as they don't record or transmit any data other than a single dimensional metric of how distracted or drowsy a driver is (or even discrete binary state of yes/no) and timestamps when that state was detected.

A closed loop system that merely keeps that data for the current drive and maintains it solely in the vehicle's own systems can be consistent with privacy principles that nobody else should know anything about how a car is being used, except what can be observed from the outside.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I went to the gym and used a forklift to lift the weights.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

But you're seeing a screenshot of an unmatched order that no driver has claimed yet. I'm saying that unless an actual match is accepted, that's not really evidence that people in a place don't tip well, just that some people don't get their orders filled.

If you never give less than $5, then any order you're involved in will involve at least a $5 tip. That may not be representative of the orders you're not involved with.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago (3 children)

I think the user decides how much to tip in advance, and the app conveys that information to potential matches. Orders with low tips tend to sit there unclaimed, because no driver wants to bother with that

I'm not sure if Uber does it that way, but Doordash does.

I remember reading about a case a few years ago where a warehouse couldn't figure out which of its workers was just periodically taking shits in random corners of the warehouse. I think I'm starting to understand a different angle to that story, though.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago (2 children)

It's got everything. Em dash. It's not X, it's Y. Emoji bullet points.

Perfect.

[–] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

AI companies are bankrupting themselves with training costs that they need to recoup back by selling inference.

I think they hit a wall in actual returns on performance with pretraining, years ago. Then they started scaling up on post-training/reinforcement learning to continue improvement, but that might be hitting a plateau as well. More recently it looks like they're relying more heavily on scaling up on inference, which is a significant problem for their long term business models.

If they're not able to cheaply deliver inference (and charge at a premium), how will they be able to sustain their businesses?

It seems that the most recent, largest models are using a lot more tokens to accomplish the same tasks, so even as token cost drops the actual cost of using the latest models seems to be going up with time (even as performance improves).

 

I've read some of Ed Zitron's long posts on why the AI industry is a bubble that will never be profitable (and will bring down a lot of companies and investors), and one of the recurring themes is that the AI companies are trying to capture growing market share in an industry where their marginal profits are still negative, and that any increase in revenue necessarily increases their costs of providing their services.

But some of the comments in various HackerNews threads are dismissive, saying that each new generation of models makes the cost of inference lower, so that with sufficient customer volume, the companies running the models can make enough profit on inference to make up for the staggering up-front capital expenditures it took to build out the data centers, train their models, etc.

It's all pretty confusing to me. So for those of you who are familiar with the industry, I have several questions:

  1. Is the cost of running any given pretrained model going down, for specific models? Are there hardware and software improvements that make it cheaper to run those models, despite the model itself not changing?
  2. Is the cost of performing a particular task at a particular quality level going down, through releases of newer models of similar performance (i.e., a smaller model of the current generation performing similarly to a bigger model of the previous generation, such that the cost is now cheaper)?
  3. Is the cost of running the largest flagship frontier models going down for any given task? Or does running the cutting edge show-off tasks keep increasing in cost, but where the companies argue that the improvement in performance is worth the cost increase?

I suspect that the reason why the discussion around this is so muddled online is because the answers are different depending on which of the 3 questions is meant by "is running an AI model getting cheaper over time?" And the data isn't easy to synthesize because each model has different token prices and different number of tokens per query.

But I wanted to hear from people who are knowledgeable about these topics.

 

Curious what everyone else is doing with all the files that are generated by photography as a hobby/interest/profession. What's your working setup, how do you share with others, and how are you backing things up?

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