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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by Kaplya@hexbear.net to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

I’m not even American, so it doesn’t affect me directly, but I am scared to death of a Trump presidency.

I am one of those people here who think that Biden is a far more competent executor of imperialist policies compared to Trump, but what I am even more afraid of is the early death of nascent left wing movements in America.

I am reminded of how the KPD getting its leaders murdered by Freikorps thugs during the Spartacist uprising (mind you, a much stronger party than any leftist movement in America today), and how its continued suppression paved the way to Nazi Germany.

Project 2025 will effectively embolden fascist thugs in America to do the same to the left wing movements, many of which are still in their cradle, and the death of leftist movements in their infancies will inevitably pave the way to a fascist America and undo many of the progress that had been made over decades.

The world cannot afford a fascist America. Imagine Hitler with nukes. The world will have to pay a much, much larger price as a result.

On this reasoning alone, I believe that Trump needs to be stopped at all cost. But many here have disagreed with me, and I need you to persuade me why I shouldn’t be afraid of Project 2025 at all. Even if the chance of that happening is 10%, I’m still not ready to gamble with it.

(I’m not saying we have to support Biden, I believe it is somewhat inevitable, I’m saying that we have to buy ourselves as much time as possible, even if it means strategic voting, to build a resilient leftist movement while delaying the inevitable for as long as we can.)

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[-] footfaults@hexbear.net 31 points 7 months ago

Project 2025 is just a scary name that liberals made up for what Republicans always plan to do when they get into office

[-] tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 7 months ago

Liberals didn't make it up though? What do you mean https://www.project2025.org/ and the plan is much further than anything I've seen planned in my life of following US politics

[-] davel@hexbear.net 26 points 7 months ago

Yeah IMO, they ain’t playin’. This is stuff they’ve been working up to for decades, just as packing the courts with conservative judges and overturning Roe v. Wade was.

[-] Tabitha@hexbear.net 25 points 7 months ago

they did the one thing democrats hate most, planning ahead

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[-] invo_rt@hexbear.net 30 points 7 months ago

The Dems haven't even meaningfully engaged with fucking Project 2010 yet. Project 2025 isn't even on their radar.

[-] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 29 points 7 months ago

I feel like no one is questioning the logistics of Project 2025. I don't believe they're gonna get tens of thousands of conservatives to move to DC. I'd like to see some evidence of how many people they've got lined up for that right now. All I see is they have a budget of 22 mil and that ain't enough.

Now they can fire tens of thousands of liberal federal workers. And they might end up doing that even if they dont get the replacements. But if they want to conduct mass proletarianization of tens of thousands of highly educated workers then I'm sure they'll have a good time.

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[-] Yor@hexbear.net 27 points 7 months ago

You can fear it because it is scary, but also know that democrats have shown they will not meaningfully oppose Republican agendas. Also, they will only do the smallest bit of harm reduction if you vote for candidates that support genocide. There needs to be a line at some point where leftists stop voting for people like Biden who are almost no different than Trump

[-] ChaosMaterialist@hexbear.net 27 points 7 months ago

Look how little Republicans accomplished while they held all three federal branches (2018, before the midterms), and they still accomplished little. Quoting from chairman

I have said that all the reputedly powerful reactionaries are merely paper tigers. The reason is that they are divorced from the people. Look! Was not Hitler a paper tiger? Was Hitler not overthrown? I also said that the tsar of Russia, the emperor of China and Japanese imperialism were all paper tigers. As we know, they were all overthrown. U.S. imperialism has not yet been overthrown and it has the atom bomb. I believe it also will be overthrown. It, too, is a paper tiger.

That does not mean Republicans can and will cause a lot of damage, but they are not as powerful as they seem.

[-] 2Password2Remember@hexbear.net 26 points 7 months ago

liberals - ie, the people who are always wrong about literally everything - are afraid of it, so i'm not worried

Death to America

[-] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 25 points 7 months ago

Bailing water forever is not strategy

[-] Sons_of_Ferrix@hexbear.net 25 points 7 months ago

He'd need the backing of the military and most of the bourgeoisie to actually install himself as dictator. He has neither, the current neoliberal order is working just fine for the people in power right now.

[-] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 22 points 7 months ago
[-] Kaplya@hexbear.net 17 points 7 months ago

I sincerely hope it doesn’t turn into one. This is not some stupid outdoor cat debate, but one that concerns the fate of leftism in America. I’m trying to absorb as many viewpoints from the responses as possible to consider my position.

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[-] ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net 21 points 7 months ago

hey remember back under the brave and heroic obama when a bunch of justices wouldn't admit they might be old as fuck and about to implode and refused to retire, and then they died and Trump got to appoint everyone?

You claim that you're not willing to gamble, but the democrats are, so if you support them you must be too. No matter which side you support, there is no reason to believe that the one you choose won't either actively engage in or enable further fascistisation of the USA. There's a reason we keep telling you they are working together towards the same goals.

[-] aaro@hexbear.net 19 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Things Project 2025 wants to see that we will definitely not see under Biden:

  • Dismantle the EPA and NOAA
  • Invoke the insurrection act to punish anyone who called Jan 6th an attempted coup
  • Dismantle the department of education
  • classify those who talk about being transgender as child sex offenders
  • Fire the entire FDA and replace them with people handpicked to ban mifepristone and misoprostol
  • Raise the bottom income tax bracket from 10% to 15%, lower the top income tax bracket from 37% to 30%, lower the corporate tax rate from 21% to 18%
  • Rescind gender identity, sexual orientation, and sex as protected classes
  • "the largest domestic deportation operation in history" (yikes)
  • implement unitary executive theory

That's just an assortment, it's not all and it's not the worst things. It's just a little different from blue MAGA.

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this post was submitted on 07 Apr 2024
80 points (100.0% liked)

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