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[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 72 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Controversial take, but please believe I'm making it in good faith:

Obviously this is bad, but I hope people realise that these kinds of attitudes are still incredibly pervasive, sometimes where you would least expect them.

You'll sometimes see people who think of themselves as feminists or progressive, have a superficial(!!!) understanding of identity politics, treat abstract even stereotypical ideas about gender as if they're real things, and reinforce essentialist and binary ideas about gender. They'll shout down those who don't have the same identity based 'lived experiences' and claim they have no right to speak on certain topics.

It ranges from the banal: someone claiming the only reason someone could possibly be criticial of the Barbie movie, is because they're not a woman.

To the outright toxic: progressive women who were assigned female at birth (cis/not trans) who are transphobic against trans women because they're not 'real women' because they haven't had the same 'lived experiences' and therefore don't have the right identity to speak on 'real' women's issues or become part of the women's movement. Of course, trans women aren't cis women, but that doesn't mean both don't have enough in common to both be considered women. Nature's messy.

I suspect this partly explains what happens with people like JK Rowling, who think of themselves as feminists but in practice are increasingly(?) sliding into essentialist, regressive and right wing ideas about what it means to be a woman, thereby helping to foster division among people who share a common cause and inadvertently undermining the women's movement.

More generally, binary essentialist thinking can be incredibly divisive and undermine stuff like class consciousness. I may have been born with a penis and think of myself as a boring man, but that doesn't mean I have nothing in common with a black trans sex worker. We're both getting fucked by the Elon Musk's of this world.

This comment was overly long and stream of thought. I go sleep now.

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

I agree with most of what you said. There are biological differences between men and women though, and we do tend to have different reactions to similar situations based on our hormonal balances. It's scientific, and not some antiquated ideology. We know the effects estrogen and testosterone have on mood, behavior, physique, and libido. We even know how particular balances of those hormones can impact someone's perceptions and reactions. When men undergo hormonal treatment for transitions they do become more emotional, and when women transition to male they become less emotional. Men and women with lower estrogen levels have a lower libido and men and women with higher estrogen levels demonstrate larger mood swings. Even something as simple as testosterone replacement for injured or older men can trigger emotional differences until the doctor gets the patient's estrogen balance correct.

Hormones make a difference, but I don't think it's wise to use that to say "men are like this and women are like that (but because of hormones)." Doubly so since there are a ton of factors that impact those levels, e.g. age, weight, medications, cycles, etc.

[-] WookieMonster@midwest.social 20 points 10 months ago

Men are only less emotional if you don't consider things like anger emotions. Which is bullshit.

[-] Birdie@thelemmy.club 4 points 10 months ago

Perhaps their emotions CHANGE? Humans, regardless of sex or gender, are emotional beings. Estrogen and testosterone have an effect on emotions, but one does not cause less emotions, just different emotions.

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Emotional

adjective (of persons) excessively affected by emotion

Being emotional doesn't mean that you have more emotions, it means that you are more affected by them.

High estrogen levels are associated with greater mood swings, and greater reactivity towards emotions. The infamous Roid Rage is actually caused by elevated estrogen levels as a result of the elevated testosterone levels from steroids. If steroid users don't use estrogen suppressors, then the body attempts to balance the hormonal levels and produces excess estrogen, which causes dramatic mood swings. Women are naturally susceptible to this because of their fluctuating hormonal levels during reproductive cycles.

[-] abbadon420@lemm.ee 12 points 10 months ago

Great story. You've made some good points in themselves, but what does it have to do with a man who abandons his wife and new-born child, abuses the wife and writes a book about it?

[-] TheBat@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago
[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 5 points 10 months ago

I want to give the author of that a hug.

Fantastic article.

[-] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

It ranges from the banal: someone claiming the only reason someone could possibly be criticial of the Barbie movie, is because they’re not a woman.

Over Christmas I was on the receiving end of a common variant of this from my sister in law: she claimed that the only reason I don't like Taylor Swift's music is that she's a woman.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago

I got the same with an ex girlfriend and Outkast. The only reason I didn't like them is because I am white and racist.

[-] slurpeesoforion@startrek.website 2 points 10 months ago

Pfft. That implies that the only reason I do like them is because I'm a white racist.

[-] TWeaK@lemm.ee 49 points 10 months ago

If Books Could Kill is an excellent podcast, and I'm pretty sure they covered this fictional novel.

[-] Mathprogrammer1@sh.itjust.works 41 points 10 months ago

Yo, man. Don't just talk about it. Post a link. That's my favorite episode

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0urY9vOZg5o0wypzNX5F2c?si=bEnekQ_ERHyuz8BhuklO4A

[-] FengaNails@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

If books could kills' episode on freakonimics was the most got a podcast has ever made me feel. Love their stuff.

[-] topinambour_rex@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

The "men are rational, women are emotional" trend exists since the 18th century. Otherwise it would have been limited to north america 9r english countries, if the origin was this sole book.

[-] GhostMatter@lemmy.ca 17 points 10 months ago

Was this said or implied anywhere here?

[-] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 12 points 10 months ago

I can’t believe a therapist recommended this book to me. It was awhile back, but still.

[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago
[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 6 points 10 months ago

My read of that book series was different.

I must be wrong.

[-] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

HahaHA genders are different. OH MAN!

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world -3 points 10 months ago
[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 51 points 10 months ago

Men are From Mars, Women Are From Venus

Bonus trivia - The author, John Gray, not only treated his wife like crap, and got a divorce, she ALSO had a best selling self help book around the same time:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_De_Angelis

"Are You the One for Me?: Knowing Who's Right and Avoiding Who's Wrong"

[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 50 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

De Angelis is known for her books that help people find the right partner ... and has been married five times as of 1995.

Rule 1: Don't read her books.

[-] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 23 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

She may just be a hands on learner.

[-] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 6 points 10 months ago

Learn from other people's mistakes!

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

There's something telling about their relationship in the titles of their books...

[-] pm_me_your_quackers@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago

I guess that makes me feel a little better

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 32 points 10 months ago

Are you asking for the title of the book that's explicitly called out in the post itself?

[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago

I misread, my mistake.

[-] ivanafterall@kbin.social -3 points 10 months ago

Yes, please?

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[-] BolexForSoup@kbin.social 2 points 10 months ago

Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus

[-] lechatron@lemmy.today 1 points 10 months ago

Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus

this post was submitted on 11 Jan 2024
563 points (96.2% liked)

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