this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2026
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Electric Vehicles

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Electric Vehicles are a key part of our tomorrow and how we get there. If we can get all the fossil fuel vehicles off our roads, out of our seas and out of our skies, we'll have a much better environment. This community is where we discuss the various different vehicles and news stories regarding electric transportation.


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Determinants of electric vehicle emissions savings and costs across locations and individuals Marco Miotti and Jessika E Trancik*

Following is in video description by @MoneyShift

The most common argument against electric cars is that once you factor in battery manufacturing and lithium mining, they aren't actually cleaner. MIT tested that directly, and the answer is no longer ambiguous.

Researchers Marco Miotti and Jessika Trancik built a lifecycle model covering thousands of US zip codes, drilling down to individual driver behavior rather than comparing broad regions. They accounted for battery and vehicle manufacturing, fuel extraction and refining, regional electricity mix, local meteorological data, traffic density, trip length and duration, acceleration patterns, gas and electricity prices, and state fees. The study appears in Environmental Research Letters.

The concession first: building a battery is dirtier than building a comparable gas car, and an EV starts life with a larger manufacturing footprint. MIT states that plainly rather than working around it.

The findings: in most US locations, a battery electric vehicle reduces lifetime greenhouse gas emissions by 40 to 60 percent compared to a similar gas vehicle, with larger reductions in urban areas. On cold weather, MIT found that in a climate like North Dakota, efficiency can drop as much as 50 percent on a particularly frigid night, but the effect on annual emissions benefits is minimal. Miotti's own conclusion was that even in the most unfavorable conditions, EVs still reduce emissions substantially.

On cost, EVs are competitive with comparable combustion vehicles in lifetime ownership cost across most of the country, even without clean vehicle tax credits. Where electricity is relatively affordable, battery electrics tend to cost less outright. The study also found that individual driving behavior matters roughly as much as regional electricity mix, with the biggest reductions going to people who drive more, drive larger vehicles, and spend more time in traffic.

MIT also updated their public tool at carboncounter.com, where you can compare lifecycle emissions and ownership costs for nearly any car on the market.

None of this means you have to like electric cars. Dislike the steering feel. Dislike the brake feel. Want a manual. Those are real objections. The emissions one is finished.

Car news the way Doug DeMuro, Jason Cammisa and Chris Harris cover cars, every day

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[–] Seimhe@lemmy.world 75 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

As long as we have the problem of cars, this sounds like the least worse option.

Thanks for outlining it in the post OP. I never watch videos, but I read the text.

[–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 24 points 2 weeks ago

a fellow c/fuckcars enjoyer I see.

Ya I really wish more people used the body of video posts. I also prefer to read

[–] FiniteBanjo@feddit.online 49 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It's so neat that you cite the source when the video author does not lmao

[–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 28 points 2 weeks ago

lol at least he named them so I could find it myself.

[–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 27 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

Might be an unpopular statement on this community: But I was actually still on the fence if current EVs were a net benefit or not.

I'm also torn between waiting for newer makes/models to hit the Canadian market, and buying one now before they start putting AI in them.

[–] Dogyote@slrpnk.net 15 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Get a used EV, you'll save a lot and can get an older model with less AI.

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

Definitely buy used. These things drop like rocks during the first year of ownership. I got 50% off MSRP for letting someone else own the car for the first 9000 miles.

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[–] mctoasterson@reddthat.com 22 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Batteries are a problem but it doesn't take much napkin math to see that, on an individual level, homecharging an EV for 30-50 years is better than distributing and burning the energy-equivalent gasoline over the same period. It's better if off-peak grid energy is used. Even more efficient if the grid power is generated partially with renewables. Or best of all, homecharge from a home battery system that recharges exclusively from home solar. It is the highest initial cost outlay and highest initial inputs of polluting materials, but then the resulting power approaches being "free" for the life of the system, and creates no further emissions in its generation process.

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 8 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Uhhh that napkin math forgets to account that over 30-50 years you'll need multiple batteries/cars. Hard enough keeping a 30 year old ICE going these days and usually those spring cheap failures (but many, since they're more complex). An EV battery is tens of thousands even if the car is old and worth <10k, unless you go used with no warranty. All batteries fail eventually, even if they're getting better these days.

It's still more efficient than ICE, but at this point we need batteries that reliably last 20-30 years so the people who can't afford to buy new can use the old ones without worrying about a huge ticking time bomb or doing cell replacements on a high voltage battery at home.

[–] speculate7383@lemmy.today 16 points 2 weeks ago (13 children)

My 11-year old Nissan Leaf, with the oldest and worst battery technology in modern EVs, is now at 80% battery capacity.

Replacement battery is $6k, installed.

But 80% is enough for me so I won't need to replace it for a long time. This car will easily last 20 or 30 years.

"But I can't afford to spend even $5k to replace the battery when it happens!!!!!". Baloney. What I can't afford is paying 4 times the cost per mile for gasoline, FOREVER.

Set up an monthly automatic transfer in your checking account to a savings account, for the amount you would have spent on gasoline. Call it your battery replacement fund. It will be plenty in no time.

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[–] SonarTaxLaw@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

How long do modern EV batteries last? I'm not sure we have any definitive answer yet but I can tell you as someone who recently purchased a used EV with 60k miles on it, I am amazed at how well the battery still performs. From what I can tell, I've lost maybe 10% of total battery capacity from brand new. I'm now at just over 70k and haven't noticed any material impact of battery degradation. I won't be surprised if I get to 120k or more miles before I need to think about a battery swap or rebuild.

And battery tech is only getting better.

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[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

If the world governments were actually serious about carbon emissions and transitioning to EV, they would bring in standardization laws on EV designs. It's currently a fragmented mess. Tesla casts their frames around a battery, making both replacement and frame repair impossible. We need to start with one standardized battery pack that is easy to replace. This would keep cars on roads 20+ years.

[–] TBi@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Also locking down replacement parts to only dealer installs needs to be banned.

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Tesla doesn't even have standardized parts in their model lines. That's why body panels are so expensive.

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[–] TR3@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Hear hear!

Standardisation is drastically needed. It is crazy that currently the battery change can be more expensive than the whole car that is still in good condition otherwise.

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[–] dudesss@piefed.ca 16 points 2 weeks ago (29 children)
[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)
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[–] MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

TLDR: Cars still bad. EVs less so, but still significant CO~2~ contributers (better in places with more renewable).

[–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I've always been more about electric trains and busses than electric cars.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

And bicycles (e- or otherwise, but kinda especially e- because they get more people doing it who wouldn't have considered it before).

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[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago (13 children)

When sodium batteries become the norm, lithium mining won't be a factor and the picture will improve even more.

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[–] gewindestift@feddit.org 9 points 2 weeks ago

I'd also like to add that the manufacturing footprint can (and hopefully will be) reduced. So the difference will grow. Fossil cars will not get more efficient. Also fuck cars.

[–] sem@piefed.blahaj.zone 9 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

EvEn ThE tIrEsSs?

For a while the right was claiming that evs, being heavier, caused more pollution from wear and tear on roads and tires.

Glad this article shows it was bs

[–] bountygiver@lemmy.ml 19 points 2 weeks ago

If they truly cared about that, we'd have trams everywhere already.

[–] Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 2 weeks ago

It isn't bullshit, just overblown.

A lot of microplastics in our environment come from tires. And more heavy vehicles definitely cause more. But the difference in weight between an ICE and EV is too small to really count. Especially compared to a truck.

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[–] isekaihero@ani.social 9 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

They've outsourced our jobs to China for the past 50 years, haven't increased minimum wage since 2009, and have skyrocketed the cost of everything with inflation but we can't have cheap chinese EV's in the USA because it's bad for some reason. Honestly I think we need to shoot our oligarchs. I just have to say it. The only reason they aren't letting us buy cheap EV's is because the only way they can keep themselves rich is by rigging the economy using anti free market regulations. The rich USA oligarchs have effectively become communist. This is what communists do.

[–] Canconda@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 weeks ago

Agreed. IMO the epstein-billionaire class cannot be reformed.

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[–] ObscureOtter@piefed.ca 6 points 2 weeks ago

https://www.carboncounter.com/

For anyone who wanted to click the URL in the OP.

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