this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2026
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No Stupid Questions

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[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 8 points 6 hours ago

Remember that the bible is a collection of works from different places and times.

You get some literary works in the bible that are intentional fiction written to prove a real point, like the book of Job. This book was written specifically as a foil against hero’s journey narrative, to point out that sometimes bad things happen to good people, and it’s not something they can overcome under their own strength — and that this entirely misses the point of life in the first place.

There’s not really any reason to compare biblical narrative (or any other parts) to hero’s journey narrative, because the bible is already one of the most studied canons in the world; a lot of literary analysis techniques were developed with biblical works as their main referant.

[–] False@lemmy.world 6 points 6 hours ago

As someone that hasn't read the Bible, I don't think you've read the Bible either

Did you read the Wikipedia link you send ?

Eventually, hero myth pattern studies were popularized by Joseph Campbell, who was influenced by Carl Jung's analytical psychology. Campbell used the monomyth to analyze and compare religions. In his book The Hero with a Thousand Faces(1949), he describes the narrative pattern as follows:

A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.[2]

Campbell's theories regarding the concept of a "monomyth" have been the subject of criticism from scholars, particularly folklorists, who have dismissed the concept as a non-scholarly approach suffering from source-selection bias, among other criticisms.

[–] squirrel@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (1 children)

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but here it goes...

Because the Hero's Journey is junk science. Joseph Campbell who created the "Hero's Journey" was an arch-reactionary who had intended to present an alternative to the literature of his day which he disdained. He longed for a return to the "wisdom of the past" and his book "The Hero with a thousand faces" was positioned as presenting this wisdom, arranged around Freudian and Jungian theories, particularly the debunked "collective unconscious"; as well as the ideas of reactionary philosopher Spengler and ethnologist Frobenius (particular Frobenius' idea of "paideuma").

What the book actually is, is a mashup of quotes from various myths and legends, deprived of their cultural context and strung together along the lines of Campbell's preconceived beliefs. These myths and legends are never considered in their entirety, nor did Campbell dwell on the culture that produced them. From a standpoint of anthropology, it is a profoundly unscientific book and upon publication it was largely dismissed as such by Campbell's peers.

In the "American Anthropologist" Stephen Porter Dunn wrote:

Campbell's book is in a sense a throwback to an earlier heroic age of anthropology, when the air was dark with flying hypotheses and comparisons rained down like acorns in autumn. Reading it, the case-hardened social scientist derives the same sort of nostalgic, half-shamed pleasure as the ordinary adult would from reading G.A. Henty or Robin Hood to his children. Campbell uses the traditional equipment and methods of a literary critic, for whom comparison and analogy are tantamount to proof and fact. He writes in a curiously archaic style - full of rhetorical questions, exclamations of wonder and delight, and expostulations directed at the reader [...]

Accordingly, The Hero's Journey always mattered more to literary applications than as a genuine human artefact. Still the importance of the The Hero's Journey as a storytelling concept only came after the success of "Star Wars", when Hollywood discovered it as a template for blockbuster movies. Though Hollywood largely discarded most of Campbell (for good reason) in favor of the simplified version as presented by Christopher Vogler (for example: The 12 steps of the Hero's Journey are Vogler's version, Campbell used 17) who did not care much about the Hero's Journey allegedly universal applicableness, than in its usefulness as a tool set.

Lots of people are still heavily invested in painting the Hero's Journey as a universally shared principle of storytelling. To those people I recommend Robert Ellwood's "The Politics of Myth", which traces the development of Campbell's thinking and the development of the Hero's Journey.

[–] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

As a huge fan of Campbell's work, I want to hate you with the hate of 10K suns! And yet, reality is reality. Science is what it is IMO, and if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. (oof)

That said, however, I wonder if the alleged 'takedowns' of Campbell's work aren't a bit invested upon the desire to believe. And one thing that I know for sure, however wrong Joe could arguably be about this or that, he was also absolutely correct upon a bunch of other stuff. About our Naked Ape chronic desire to believe, and the way we all tend to invent shockingly similar mythos. In order to meet the needs of our chronic insecurity, that is, and we are absolutely LOADED with such insecurities.

So as I see it, you can tear down Campbell's work upon this or that angle, and yet it would be a fool's errand to try to erase his main point, and he has many of those, after all...

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago

How would it do that? And where do you see that myth in the Bible?

[–] Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

Yeah! How come!?

[–] KRAW@linux.community 0 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Who are you trying to apply the Hero's Journey too? Jesus? Because it doesn't really fit at all.

[–] marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

I have to disagree there:

  1. The Ordinary World,

Baby born to poor people in a manger

  1. Call to Adventure

Three wise men show up and proclaim him the messiah and help guide him

  1. Refusal of the Call

A literal 18 year time skip between age 12 and 30

  1. Meeting the Mentor

Assumed why he returned from this time skip as a rabbi

  1. Crossing the Threshold

Gaining his first disciples and preaching

  1. Tests, Allies, and Enemies

Judas

  1. Approach to the Inmost Cave

Acceptance of Judas' betrayal

  1. Ordeal

Obvious

  1. Reward 10) The Road Back 11) Resurrection

I mean 9 10 and 11 are the same here. Dude came back from the dead.

  1. Return with the Elixir.

He was said to grant boons to his former disciples before he left the second time.

[–] KRAW@linux.community 0 points 1 hour ago

Lol, somebody hasn't actually read the Bible. You have taken quite a few liberties, just in the first few points.

  1. Jesus is never portrayed as "ordinary."
  2. The wisemen don't proclaim anything. An angel appears to Mary before Jesus is born and tells her exactly what will happen and what to do.
  3. Jesus is a literal baby at this point. He can't refuse anything
  4. Assumptions are of no value compared to facts, or at least something that is actually in a historical text or the actual Bible.
  5. This is not what "Crossing the Threshold" would be in the Hero's Journey. It's like Luke leaving Tatooine or Frodo leaving the shire. Jesus is the son of God, at least in the context of the New Testament. There is no "threshold." He's part of an omniscient being.

and considering that's almost half of the steps, I don't think we need to go any further