"We did it, Patrick! We made a technological breakthrough!"
A place for all those who loathe AI to discuss things, post articles, and ridicule the AI hype. Proud supporter of working people. And proud booer of SXSW 2024.
AI, in this case, refers to LLMs, GPT technology, and anything listed as "AI" meant to increase market valuations.
Okay let's be clear that I fuckin hate AI but this still seems like user error rather than the car's autopilot killing someone? Like... you can still slam the brakes even if you're in autopilot mode. It's basically souped up cruise control.
Again, I hate AI passionately, but let's try to use our higher reasoning too, or else we're no better than the assholes who ask ChatGPT for relationship advice and basic math
I agree with you, but I think both Tesla and the "driver" should be liable. Tesla should be liable for how they market their vehicles "self driving" features. The driver for not making a reasonable attempt to prevent an accident.
The driver must be the one responsible, right? Otherwise it would need to be the manufacturer, I would imagine.
Really, we need to stop letting them diffuse the responsibility so much that nobody is held accountable. When we force somebody to put their name to this I bet people will suddenly stop believing in it so much.
Depends on jurisdiction. In the States, some States allow more than one party to be liable. But others are single liability States.
But basically, if you market a product as being able to do specific tasks and the person using the product uses it that way, and it kills someone or harms them, I think it comes down to who is the person or entity who's actions directly lead to the event/could have been forseen to lead to such an event. Tesla has a lot of data on their vehicles and every day there seems to be a new report about what they knew about the safety of the "self driving" features. Specifically things like repainting the lines on roadways to get the results they wanted and potentially fabricating data or modifying it to present their vehicles as having specific capabilities. But that doesn't mean the driver is off the hook.
So for instance the person behind the wheel could argue that they didn't know that the vehicle could act on its own to leave the roadway and crash into a home because it's marketed to have safety features to prevent or mitigate a collision. And the court would have to decide if they indeed had time to slam on the brakes or take over the wheel. If they did have time and they didn't do anything to try to prevent the crash they are definitely on the hook.
Tesla was also recently caught fudging the safety data in order to be approved in Europe. Chances are they've done this everywhere.
Yeah I saw the article about that. I factored it into my belief that Tesla is at least partially liable but I also couldn't remember granular details. Thanks for bringing it up.
Tesla has turned off their self driving right before crashes to avoid liability.
Im not saying that's what happened here but they have done this before.
I hadn't heard this specifically, but I am interested if you've got a link?
I hear that. I think Tesla's "self driving car" bullshit needs to stop until we have actual self-driving vehicles... but then, I don't want self driving cars, I want public transport that functions so that we don't need or want self driving cars
The funny thing is what their end goal is is too have self driving taxies so most people won't actually own the vehicle.
Public transportation ( if it's good) solves this and it's better for the environment.
I think it's China that's experimenting with Smart cars all talking to each other so if one stops suddenly or hits a hazard they all stop at the same time.
Basically they are all linked together.
That's what I always imagined when the idea of self-driving cars first came up - y'know, something to prevent 50 car pile-ups, that sort of thing. Not this BS :/ Now I just want a better bus system and less cars so there can be more bikes.
You don't get to say your car has self driving, full or otherwise, if it can fuck up so hard that it crashes into someone's house and kills a person who wasn't even on the fucking road.
Yeah absolutely. It's not self driving and they shouldn't make people think it's self driving. Fuck Tesla
It's Schrodinger's self-driving car. When it drives well, it's full self driving, when it crashes, it's suddenly assisted self driving
Watch the video. The car was FLYING. The problem with 500hp high torque EVs is if things go wrong, they can slam you back in the seat and in a second, it's all over.
I drive a Rivian and jfc it’s so fast especially for how big it is. People who don’t drive EVs do not understand the torque and speeds and play.
Ok so they weren’t under the influence but what reasons/account did they give? If I have a seizure or faint behind the wheel of a Tesla it’s going to blast me through someone’s front door?
Do not trust a company run by a racist neo-Nazi!
Reserving judgement until I see details. Specifically, steering wheel input data and accelerator pedal data. A map of the incident with timestamps would also help.
I'm sure BigBalls is massaging the data as we speak.
The driver had the accelerator pressed all the way down. You can do this, but the screen says “autopilot will not brake” and lets you go all the way to 90 MPH. So this is 100% the driver’s fault.
Completely the driver's fault. It is ALWAYS the responsibility of the driver to control the car. Zero exceptions.
Whether the tool is bad doesn't matter because it is VERY easy to immediately disengage it.
But the driver at the time was the car.
Autosteer is just fancy cruise control.
It's not like the driver got out of the car and let the car drive on its own.
Seriously. It takes barely any motion from the driver to disable the system. Grab the wheel and pull. Tap the brake. Flip the control stalk up/hit the off button.
The driver's job is to not hit shit with her car. Period. Nobody should ever assume that the car will protect their lives. Whether it intends to or its not capable or what. It's on the driver for not taking over and avoiding a collision. Always. Without exception.
How often is the auto pilot at fault and not the pilot for airplane incidents?
Hint: the answer is never.
Won't someone please think of the trillionaire!?
Didn't mention him once. He's not relevant to the conversation. This is about a driver failing to control her car. Period.
Tesla is selling the car as being self-driving. If people assume that means it can drive itself, that's Tesla's fault.
Is it? Or is it about a major system failure leading to an uncontrollable car?
He is very relevant because he says his cars are self driving and safer than human drivers.