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I need a distro that is stable with a particular need to set up zero input automatic updates. If an update asks for a password or needs user interaction in basically any way it simply won't get done. All he needs is a reliable platform for browsing the web. I am replacing an Ubuntu system that has apparently just stopped working (I have not had a chance to examine it yet) after years and years of not getting proper updates after he forgot his password.

Something like Bazzite is intriguing because of it's locked down environment although he is very much not a gamer. Is there something locked down like Bazzite but with long term LTS release cycle?

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[–] adarza@piefed.ca 2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

you're on the right track, i think, but not bazzite--that carries a lot of extra stuff that isn't necessary here. just ordinary fedora silverblue. clean up the app grid or put dash-to-dock on it and put the few launchers they need down on that. gnome is actually a good desktop for basic users that just need to run one or a few applications. updates are somewhat frequent but should be almost entirely automatic.

i have a few users like your parents on endless os, which is similar to silverblue, just based on an in-house immutable debian instead of silverblue's fedora base. i rarely ever hear from them, it 'just works'. i also have it at home, it's currently my only linux desktop there (i do most my 'work' at the office, home is just doom-scrolling and media for the most part these days). updates are less frequent but endless is switching to a gnome os base with the next major version. that will probably increase the frequency of updates a bit compared to their older debian base. that upgrade to v7 should be mostly invisible to the user, they've done a good job in the past with upgrades.

[–] Auth@lemmy.world 5 points 21 hours ago

I'm a mint hater but mint is the choice here. You'll need to monitor the transition from x11 to wayland but other than that it should be fine.

[–] morto@piefed.social 5 points 1 day ago

It's worth to consider that since they already used ubuntu, they might be already familiar with the gui and may feel lost if it changes

[–] IratePirate@feddit.org 48 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Define what you mean by "locker down". If you don't give your user superuser privileges, every distro is locked down.

I'd strongly recommend Mint:

  • with Cinnamon DE: very Windows-esque UI
  • Ubuntu / Debian-based, i.e. rock-solid, unlikely to break
  • 100% automated updates (including automatic removal of old kernels so your /boot won't get clogged
  • Timeshift system snapshots in case something does break. (Note: I've only ever used Timeshift to un-fuck systems that I, personally, had fucked with superuser rights and manual meddling.)
[–] Kjell@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

+1, my parents are using Mint and they are only browsing the web. They have not complained anything after almost a year. In my case, I didn't dare to set up automatic updates so I'm updating the computer when I visit them.

[–] IratePirate@feddit.org 2 points 1 day ago

Same here, parents. Feel free to turn on automatic updates. It's never broken anything, and vulnerabilities do need patching.

[–] AWildRattata@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Mint was going to be my suggestion too! It's a great distro for a lot of users. Easy to navigate and hard(ish) to break.

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Seconded. Absolutely what I'd install in this kind of situation. I have an old machine set up for my wife with Mint. She only uses it to check her bank account, basically. So far zero issues.

[–] Hund@feddit.nu 7 points 1 day ago

I can also recommend Linux Mint. It's a great general purpose option for both beginners and experienced users.

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[–] yuman@programming.dev 5 points 1 day ago

ixnay on anything but the vanillaest of the vanillas and that goes triple for bazzite and friends. you don't want "intriguing" shit left behind to take care of pops, that's a thing for you to play and experiment with.

your solution is already staring you in the face: the ubuntu you left behind persevered even under those circumstances. either fix it and update it or install a fresh one, with a tweak here and there. and don't touch nothing else..

[–] whatiswrongwithyou@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Debian and install the “unattended-upgrades” package.

You set it up with an email address to complain to when something fucks up and it just works.

E: no matter what you end up going with, some kind of reverse proxy or vpn will be helpful for when you need to remote in and fix something.

If you end up needing Remote Desktop and can do it, stay away from Wayland. The screen sharing situation there is confusing and annoying for seasoned users, let alone in a tech support situation.

What might be a better bet is either a windows (robust screen sharing setup) or mac (simpler interface and reliability) computer. You’re gonna be on the other end of it, so make sure to pick what you know the most deeply when it comes to remote support.

E2: another note in the vein of hated non linux oses: Those might be good because other people in the users life may be familiar with them and it won’t be such a pain when they wanna open a file or something.

[–] yeh74fjic8e5we@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I currently have an older relative using Debian/KDE with unattended-updates and few issues over the past year. Laptop was previously Windows 10, has had replacement battery and HDD->SSD swap, wouldn't be supported by Windows 11, but is totally capable of running most modern apps.

Browsers can just be flatpak/snap/ppa and auto-update whenever, as Debian’s packaged (ESR) versions might get a bit dated.

From my own experiences with Ubuntu variants, I've always had some kind of issue when doing a release update, so I've personally stopped using it, but maybe thats just me.

Only significant issues I've encountered are with some flatpaks needing permission tweaks to (re-)enable printing, webcam, or filesystem access, and potentially over-doing the ad-block extensions/settings leading some sites to break - its worth setting up multiple browsers to pre-empt and work around those problems.

For remote access, it's not a problem in my case, but you could potentially just setup a VPN with something like tailscale and just ssh over that. Once connected, I'd explore systems like VNC or KDE's built-in remote access system. In the short/medium term, it would be easier to stick with X11 for that, but at some point, Wayland and those supporting tools are going to reach parity and distributions/desktop environments will drop X11 entirely - best to future-proof as much as you can.

For regular maintenance, it's worth checking-in regularly to make sure the system and user is happy, and maybe setting a cron-job for house-keeping tasks (removing old kernel files and temp files, checking disk-usage/health), and having that notify you. But that probably depends how physically hands-on you'll be.

[–] communism@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Whichever distro you choose, you could set up SSH access for yourself to do things for them (apart from fixing most networking issues if they can't connect to the internet ofc).

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[–] procapra@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Don't think in terms of easy to use and unbreakable. You won't get that because something as simple as losing icons on the desktop is the kinda thing that'll confuse someone that's bad with computers. Instead, think in terms of what's going to be easy for you to fix when you inevitably have to play tech support.

[–] LordOfTheChia@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

I'll second this. I've setup an Kubuntu PC for my parents. It's worked really well for the past 5+ years. One thing I wish I had done was Setup remote access they can easily turn it on when they need help.

The other thing that has come up is the monitor resolution changing (ex: if they're using a UHD TV as a monitor but I set it to 1080p to make things legible for them).

For the second, I added a bright and easily visible icon to their desktop that will run a quick script to reset their monitor resolution to 1080p.

Op should have a plan for updates and especially auto updating the browser. Some banking sites may stop working if the browser hasn't been updated in a while.

Also do take time to explain the difference between the desktop (as part of the OS) vs things like application windows and especially the browser and where to find things they may not necessarily need that often but will be useful if you can't remote in, like OS settings.

[–] uuj8za@piefed.social 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I installed Fedora Silverblue on my parent's laptop almost a year ago and I haven't had any complaints or issues.

They're really not tech literate or heavy users so Silverblue is the perfect fit. I installed and configured Librewolf and Bitwarden for them and everything has been running fine. Everything else is vanilla Silverblue.

They don't know or don't care about updating software. But Silverblue does flatpak updates automatically in the background. OS and firmware updates are integrated and handled via the Gnome Software Center, so I'll click the install button every so often when I visit. No terminal required! There is a password prompt, but at least it's a GNOME shell password prompt, not a terminal password prompt.

Additionally, I was able to get LUKS encryption working without my parents noticing: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/encryption-advice-for-silverblue/162810/7

It's not the most secure LUKS implementation, but I'm also not worried about state actors hacking my parent's laptop. Originally, I skipped the disk encryption entirely because the extra password prompt made it harder to use the computer.

[–] chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I use Aurora for my wife's laptop. It, Bluefin, and Bazzite come from Silverblue.

If you want GNOME: Bluefin or Bazzite.

KDE: Aurora or Bazzite.

Like Silverblue, updates happen in the background automatically. You just have to restart the computer to pick up OS updates.

[–] uuj8za@piefed.social 1 points 21 hours ago

If you want GNOME: Bluefin or Bazzite.

Why Bluefin or Bazzite over just regular Silverblue? I'm running Silverblue on a Thinkpad and all the hardware works fine.

[–] BlackEco@lemmy.blackeco.com 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You can check out Bluefin and Aurora, which are Bazzite without the gaming. Pick the former if they're used to macOS, the latter if Windows.

[–] sic_semper_tyrannis@lemmy.today 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Kinoite and Silverblue are the official spins with less bloat if you will. Either way, I've installed Kinoite on a few people's computers with zero Linux experience and they've not had any issues besides a few minor questions that they would have on any OS.

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[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 7 points 2 days ago

I personally have installed Mint (Debian edition) with similar needs. Absolutely zero input might be a bit much to ask, since user should be aware of that something is going on before shutting everything down, but when that's taken care of the unattended upgrades work just fine. Just recently I had to fix a laptop with mint to friend of a friend because upgrade was interrupted. Just running 'dpkg --configure -a' followed by apt upgrade and apt dist-upgrade did the job, so not big of a deal for me, but for the owner of the machine that would've been pretty much impossible task since they just refuse to learn even the slightest amount of their computer and have a very short temper on anything like that. And I can kind of understand that too, at least up to a point. There are things which I just can't be arsed to learn which are equally easy to different people.

[–] EchoDelta_9@programming.dev 2 points 1 day ago

Is there something locked down like Bazzite but with long term LTS release cycle?

The only high confidence projects I know of are:

There's also stuff like HeliumOS, stillOS and probably other images based (in)directly on RHEL Image Mode.

[–] wltr@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

Take a look at the immutable distros like Fedora Silverblue. It would install updates automatically, and has the ability to always rollback to a working version. I haven’t used it long enough to have version upgrades tested. Perhaps it asks for user input. These upgrades happen twice a year.

If I was doing that these days with my current skills, I’d install some minimal version of Arch Linux and probably would remote into it once in a while to update, or invent some simple script to do the updates unattended. The lesser the packages the easier the whole task.

Also, don’t forget there’s Chrome OS which you can install on a regular PC. (It was called Chrome OS Flex last time I did that for a relative.) It’s the easiest I can remember right now. That’s for situations when all they need is actually just a browser. For those cases Chrome OS shines.

[–] Wfh@lemmy.zip 7 points 2 days ago

I've put my dad on Bluefin (same project as Bazzite). It's perfect. Major upgrades are the same as weekly updates. Transparent and uneventful. It's been almost 2 years and zero major complaints. He even finally accepted to ditch his ancient MacBook Air since I installed the Affinity suite on his Linux laptop. It was his last holdover.

[–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Also, don’t forget there’s Chrome OS

No, please forget Chrome OS. Also, I'd hesitate to call it "Linux" at this point

[–] wltr@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Haven’t used one myself for years (close to a decade). Installed it for a relative about 5 years ago, never maintained it ever since.

What’s wrong with it?

It worked pretty well on an ancient PC which was running some Windows 7 if not XP. Can’t remember really. The relative is about 80 years old, so all he needs is a browser. So, Chrome OS came naturally. The hardest part was, for some really stupid reason Google wants Google account password to be entered upon booting, and not some other password. PIN code didn’t work for us for some reason. The solution I took is we changed the password to his birthday (perhaps with some A letter, if it wants at least one letter to be present). The password included dots, which was trivial to enter with a Numpad. Like A1945.09.05. But personally, I just hate it. There are use cases when you can allow a computer to have no password. Here, Google forced us to use less secure password, out of convenience. I’d prefer to have my Google account having stronger password, and forcing no password of my computer at all. The potential security risk is someone breaking into the house, and surely they’ll be very dumb to steal that computer, to have … what? YouTube history of some old fart? But that’s a bit of a different story anyway.

Me, I’d rather go with some very minimal distro and maybe even kiosk-mode browser, if necessary.

Still, what’s wrong with ChromeOS? Did I miss something important? Beyond Google dropping ‘don’t be evil’ obviously.

[–] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Still, what’s wrong with ChromeOS? Did I miss something important? Beyond Google dropping ‘don’t be evil’ obviously.

A quick look through some of the privacy communities will give you an overall vibe on what Google is doing. But overall, they're getting monopolistic.

They're requiring all android developers register their identities with them or they'll be blocked on all Google'd android versions (which almost all Android phones ship with). They're also datamining everyone more and more each year, just like Facebook.

And they're using their influence over Chromium to force adblock blockers into every Chromium browser. And the only non-Chromium browsers are Firefox and its derivatives

And by far the worst one, they bought out ReCaptcha and they just rolled out an update that requires verification with a device that has either iOS or stock android. It doesn't support deGoogle'd android like GrapheneOS or LineageOS, and it doesn't support desktop. So now any website you visit that uses the new version of ReCaptcha requires you to verify your identity with a phone, even if you're accessing the website on desktop. This is so they can link all your systems to your identity

If you value your privacy, you should work to get your digital footprint off Google's software as much as possible

[–] 7eter@feddit.org 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Fedora Atomic Distros are great. I only run into minor issues with major updates in combination with Ffmpeg Codecs layered to the install. But I guess that's a rare usecase.

[–] wltr@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 day ago

Honestly, I don’t understand whether there’s anyone who doesn’t need normal codecs. I hate this part of Fedora, as I always need to remember to install these codecs.

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[–] SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Any atomic distro + flatpak packages.

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)
  • flatpak packages.

Yay, Gramps! I got you a supply-chain exploit! Wheee!

[–] SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

So should they use the AUR, btw?

[–] ChrisDeb@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Atomic distros don't support all packages, even flatpaks

[–] ranzispa@mander.xyz 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm aure they support Firefox + email client + a few card games to spend time between sending an email and waiting a reply.

[–] ChrisDeb@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They do support these. These specific ones do work fine but others not so much. I would recommend something more closer to Ubuntu like Linux Mint

[–] SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The OP's elderly parents won't need anything else. Have you forgotten that one of his specs is to minimize password usage and updating?

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

elementaryos is great for just this. haven't used it in a while but i remember it being the most polished user experience on linux.

[–] smeg@feddit.uk 2 points 1 day ago

You could try Aurora, it's made by the same people as Bazzite but with a general (or developer) focus instead of a gamer focus, and while it's not LTS I think it updates less rapidly than Bazzite.

If your user is really tech un-savvy though, I'd just go with ChromeOS Flex. For all their (many) faults Google do at least produce a simple all-in-one experience, and I'd rather my elderly relative use Chrome's password manager than no password manager at all.

[–] OR3X@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

FydeOS might be more in line with what you need. Based on ChromeOS, but without the Google account requirements and spyware. I installed this on my dad's PC along with setting up DNS-based Ad blocking and it's been rock solid. If he just needs a browser, that's basically what it is.

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[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The distro doesn't matter, the Desktop Environment does.

If they are used to MacOS and want something simple and "out of the way", go with Gnome.

If they are used to Windows, go with KDE.

Fedora is probably the most straightforward to install and manage right now. You won't need to "lock down" anything if you don't give them sudo credentials.and just a regular user account.

[–] AugustWest@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (3 children)

If they are used to Windows, go with KDE.

I’d say Cinnamon or XFCE. Plenty customizable enough for this use case and very straightforward.

[–] procapra@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

Facts. XFCE should be familiar to anyone who has operated a computer in the last 25 years

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