TFW The Blues Brothers sneaks into your training data.
Technology
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related news or articles.
- Be excellent to each other!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
- Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.
Approved Bots
If only there was some kind of system, that could take multiple people from A to B, with only one dude in front to keep track of what the automated system is doing. Ideally on some form of predictable track, that makes sure that the vehicle always stays in line without the need of advanced AI. Someone should invent that.
Save us Elon!
CHOO CHOO! CHUGGA CHUGGA CHOO CHOO!
They could even make them underground so they don't clog up the city!
Might sound crazy, but we might be able to link multiple vehicles together as needed for capacity so they'll move as one!
Alright now you've crossed over into impossible science fiction
We do still have taxis even in countries where mass transit is well maintained and popular. They're also not the perfect form of transportation for everyone as people can have disabilities causing limited mobility etc.
Automating things like trains also seems to have been a very slow process.
Accessible trains and buses exist and are commonplace
it's a very narrow view of accessibility to think the whole problem is solved by making an accessible bus you can get on with a wheelchair. Limited mobility affects your ability to get to the bus stop and it comes in many forms. Visually impaired people also benefit.
Maybe you've not experienced public infra that is upto standard. What sort of disability have you got btw?
Literally every single city bus in my small German 50k home town is wheelchair accessible. The bus drivers are also required to assist. And the trains are increasingly being replaced with similarly accessible versions, including modifications to the platforms to allow easy entry. U-Bahn trains are, as far as i know, always accessible for a long, long time now. At least in the cities i've visited so far. For example Munich: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3CA46JXd2g
For less connected areas, we have a "Rufbus", that can come and collect you similarly to a taxi service. They try to get multiple people if they can. And they also have cars for wheelchair users at their disposal.
In terms of automating, yes it's slow. Regulations have to be applied or worked out to make it work. Which is reasonable. Nuremberg does have the first driverless U-Bahn, though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_U-Bahn
Nuremberg driverless U-Bahn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDLpcgXLKZA
That is crazy talk. There would not be nearly enough shareholder value in such a system.
If they could be built here they would already be built. Q.E.D.
All industrial equipment is required by law to have an e-stop. Not having one in a "self-driving" car is criminal.
Being trapped in an autonomous vehicle driving erratically should have never, ever been possible. Shows you how these companies value the safety of the humans involved: they don't.
I thought they did have a stop button. I recall a video James May made of a Waymo that had one. I could be wrong. But, the article doesn't say anything about whether one was present and if the occupants tried it.
Edit: I just got home and rewatched the video. No, there's no emergency stop button. There is a "pull over" button on the passenger touchscreen console and the app, but that's about it. A bit concerning!
The above post is now under surveilance in Philadelphia.
An emergency stop is better than nothing, but they should ALSO have an emergency "let me take control". Sometimes stopping does not decrease the danger.
Example: the waymo enters a rail crossing with flashing lights, and the barriers close with the car inside. The waymo sees the barriers so it stops. What you want in that case is accelerate and get the fuck out of there. If you have a baby in the backseat, there may not be enough time to get the baby and get out of there on foot.
This is the fundamental problem with automated cars and remote (or embedded) kill switches: they can never account for the edge cases that humans can readily adapt to. People will die as a result of those edge cases. Will it save more than it costs in human life, and are we willing to make that trade as a society? I can't answer that but neither can the people making the decisions to make Waymo profitable over public safety.
Unmanned vehicles without am emergency stop button are legal at all, anywhere? WTF?
I always assumed these waymos would have had a very clearly labelled emergency stop button that would bring the car to a controlled but quick emergency stop
Come on, that can't be legal, that can't be okay
In a sane world a regulatory body pulls their fleet from the roads until they can prove they are safe to a third party. Instead they get a self imposed slap on the wrist with a promise to return soon
In a sane world people would laugh at these cars and not use them until they are bankrupt
"Waymo offered the rattled occupant $40 worth of free rides" Time to lawyer up. I'm guessing that even in our car loving society there are cases of reckless drivers who endangers passenger lives being sued.
Also, I missed the part where Waymo was ticketed in this and every other story about these renegade cars.
Surprised they didn't at least offer free access to gemini pro for a month, too
The terrifying incident underlines the very real dangers of relying on autonomous vehicles for ride shares, while they still suffer from nagging technical shortcomings
I don't care if they have a perfect driving record or not, anything autonomous MUST be equipped with clearly visible emergency stop buttons, why the fuck aren't those there?
Consent just isn't a concept to the people who make these things.
It would be so easy to implement a big red “oh fuck” button that, notifies customer service, puts the car into limp mode, and directs it to pull over.
Sounds like they need to change the name to Delamain and market it as a feature.
I was surprised these things were allowed on public streets without first being certified by some strict regulatory body.
I WAS surprised, since I used to suffer under the delusion that someone, somewhere was looking out for public safety, at least on some basic level. Like the FDA, USDA, OSHA, etc. But, these institutions were so easily gutted and pushed aside, and the traffic laws we do have aren't nearly enough for regulating self-driving cars. We've always just allowed shit to happen as long as there are no existing laws to challenge it.
They kicked corporate money out of politics in Hawaii, that can't happen fast enough in every other state. Imagine having common sense measures put before the people, like "should we allow self-driving cars on public streets before there are laws to regulate them?" and NOT having corporate money flow into the state to shift public opinion and buy off local politicians.
I work in transportation regulation. I understand your fear and frustration. What is happening with self driving cars is probably as stupid as you believe. However regulations are pretty reactive and in some ways good regulations should be. You can't regulate what you don't understand and you can't understand what has never been done before.
The best approach is to start small and work directly with a regulator to create an initial trial and evolve the regulatory framework that ensures safety for the trial period. Then that framework can be used for future trials by other companies before being finessed into an official regulation. Then you have something which you know CAN be successfully implemented by companies AND does produce good safety outcomes.
Is that what's happening? It probably was, initially. But as you said the public service is gutted and now corpos are having a wild west free run at this AI car thing. Good luck on the streets, we're soon all gonna need it.
”never having to drive again”
Y’know I can’t put my finger on it but something tells me that there’s an alternative to that without technofascist wet-dream robocars involved 🤔
Machinery is required to have a big red STOP button that will immediately stop all moving parts. For emergencies. I assume these cars don't have something like that? Maybe they should be required to; stop and unlock all doors.
And yet I still know people who are just so chuffed about "never having to drive again."
I mean, I think that part is 100% understandable. I get that many people in fact enjoy driving, but likewise, many people do not. For many a driving commute is the most anxiety inducing part of their day, and they'd be happy to be rid of it.
That's the promise that self driving cars present. They just aren't actually capable enough yet. From what I gather though, waymo is probably the farthest along of any of these companies. I don't think I'd trust them for complicated Boston area driving though. To many narrow, winding roads complete with active road work, aggressive drivers, rotaries, etc...
Permit me to reiterate an idea I had the last time a self-driving car did something illegal:
All of these cars are being driven by the same software "driver". That driver is in contempt of the law. Thus it needs to be punished like any other driver in contempt of the law. All fines to be paid by its representative human or company. All incarceration to be for as long as is necessary for the driver to be rehabilitated. If no such rehabilitation is possible, the driver is permanently banned from driving.
By which I mean, all Waymos need to be taken off the road until they're provably rehabilitated and it is certain that this won't happen again.
And if Waymo the company thinks that would be detrimental to their business, tough. Take some responsibility and fix your damn cars.
And yet I still know people who are just so chuffed about "never having to drive again."
Did they not heard about public transport or it doesn't count because it isn't choke-full of fancy tech and isn't pushed by techbro?(it is choke-full of fancy tech but never pushed by techbro)