A place to discuss all the news and events taking place in the province of Ontario, Canada.
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That high of a percentage of drivers exceeding the limit doesn’t demonstrate the need for speed cameras, but rather a gross failure of road design and traffic engineering.
Enforcement should come after traffic calming and pedestrianization efforts have failed. North American cities are notoriously bad at that.
Ford forced municipalities onto speed cameras in place of the road design changes that they were doing.
Speed cameras ARE traffic engineering, and here is the evidence that they work. They are not the only tool available, but to act like they weren't doing anything about traffic engineering is a bizarre take.
Um, but even with that, the stark difference in the data also shows that the cameras were an effective means of traffic calming.
All I see is a study that shows places where the posted limit should be increased. If there are concerns about pedestrians then safer crossings, pedestrian education, or road redesigns should be the focus.
I don't understand the constant push toward reducing the speed of road traffic and I say this as somebody who has been a pedestrian and a driver for several decades.
I mostly agree, where it's reasonable. In places with a large presence of pedestrians, I don't exactly, except for on road design. The roads should come up and meet pedestrian level, not pedestrians going to street level, for example. This requires that cars go slower. It isn't an issue of pedestrian education though. Pedestrians shouldn't need education. The design should just work to protect them.
But yeah, usually cars "speeding" consistently is a sign speed limits need increased. Lower speed limits increase the difference in speeds of cars, some going the limit and some going the speed they're comfortable with (the speed fo traffic). This delta causes accidents, and the larger the delta the worse the accident. If people are always speeding, the limit needs to match them.
I think it really depends. Often times the roads existed before the people. If they wanted to live near a 50-80km roadway, that's their choice.
I'm so tired of watching speed limits creep down and people continually crying about speeding when the issue is attentiveness and awareness.
IMO people not signaling intent and running trains through yellow/red lights to make left turns are FAR more dangerous than people going 15-20 km over the limit down straight highways with little traffic. Oh, and people who camp in the passing labe and force people to undertake to get around them.
As for pedestrians, it's people standing on the curb and crossing streets with their heads down on their phones and headphones on. What happened to the rule of crossing as quickly and safely as possible, and paying attention all around your as your cross?
We should also be putting fault in vehicle manufacturers who continue to produce complex touchscreen-based infotainment systems.
I would have to see crash and accident data concurrent with the change before I say anything.
This. Higher speeds in isolation mean nothing if the design of the streets keep drivers equally safe at those higher speeds.
I mean, it’s usually Germany and other neighbours in Europe that put such forethought intentionally into the designs of roads (look up the YouTube channel Not Just Bikes for more info), but we occasionally have strange confluences over here, too
This is more a chart demonstrating bad road design or regulation, and the incompetence of the enforcement. Either the roads are designed in such a way that huge numbers of people feel safe driving at these speeds (because the speed limit is too low, or the road designed unsafely) or there is a large number of unsafe drivers who only stopped in the presence of cameras, and who went right back to unsafe driving without issue.
This is a chart demonstrating that speed cameras are an effective intervention for an otherwise badly designed road.
or there is a large number of unsafe drivers who only stopped in the presence of cameras, and who went right back to unsafe driving without issue
...thus proving the effectiveness of cameras...
It's quite difficult to retroactively adjust the traffic speed, without causing knock on issues.
A road might have been designed to cope with 50, but hidden junctions, or pedestrians might knock it down to a 30. Making it feel like a 30 is quite different.
I'd personally prefer other, more polite methods. In the UK, the signs showing your current speed in either green (good) or red (too fast) are remarkably effective. I accept that speed cameras are needed when the other methods fail.
Proviso, the cameras should be blatantly obvious, with no ambiguity over the limit. It should only catch people both deliberately speeding, and not paying enough attention to spot the risks of speeding.
For anyone looking for more details on this, I highly recommend this video from Oh the Urbanity
It discusses this exact phenomenon in the data: speeding before and after the banning of automated enforcement cameras. It also argues effectively that the policy is inconsistent with Doug Ford’s platform of being “tough on crime”
It also argues effectively that the policy is inconsistent with Doug Ford’s platform of being “touch on crime”
When have actual implemented conservative policies ever been consistent with conservative "tough on crime" platforms?
They said "touch on crime" which I assumed related to the Epstein files but now that you mention it, a typo is probably more likely
Speed cameras definitely work, they're getting better at catching folks as the technology matures.
Of course, they're also a form of state surveillance, generally deployed as a money printer, and generally distract drivers (you see those lines on the road, your vision tunnels, you check speed, and you lose peripheral for about 1--2 seconds).
The seatbelt and phone cameras here in Australia are rather interesting to view the captures from. Working for a government body people would come in to our self service area and want to view the photos (which can be done at home, on your phone or pc); they'd get in a bit of a huff and puff once they saw the images.
The angles these cameras are placed get most angles drivers try to hide their phone usage, and the resolution is decent considering the cameras distance away.
Cameras catching distracted drivers are a great win in my eyes, no one should be fumbling their phone while trying to drive.
If you get distracted from a speed camera you should not be allowed to drive. You are the problem.
Speed cameras are practically a requirement in Korea. People here would be blasting through school zones at 100kph otherwise. No joke. As it is, you can see rich fucks in their fancy cars ignoring them since the only punishment is a fine that they wouldn't even notice.
Bali Bali culture indeed.
But its a tax on drivers! Its not fair! They don't even work its just a tax grab. /s
You’re not gonna get me to agree on this one. I have gotten two speeding tickets for going 2km over. Thats nothing but another way to fleece and steal from the working class. We all know where the speeders and racers hang out and the cops don’t do shit
They'll do anything to actually fix the root of the problem. Speed cameras is an invisible deterrent and usually highly unpopular. What they should have done is change the road design. Anything less is a cash grab since the fines doesn't go back into the road system directly to actually induce long term change.
We also need to talk about the capabilities of modern cars, licensing, and the age and capabilities of the drivers on the road.
Newer cars these days have sensors with emergency braking, but this is not foolproof. However, we know that cars can be made to have more safety features for not only the passengers of the car, but also those on the road. So when will the government mandate more safety features of driving a multi-ton steel box? Here's another more extreme solution, if the highest speed limit in the entirely of Canada is for example...120km/h - then why allow cars go faster than that?
Licensing has been inconsistent. Looking at the kinds of driving happening on the road these days lack of signalling, impaired driving, erratic driving, spatial awareness of other drivers - it's clear that people are getting licensed somehow, one way or another. There's even been cases of delivery truck drivers operating without a valid license.
Then there's the age aspect and those that lack skill due to how little some people drive. You see people with 20+ year old cars and you look inside and it's an elderly person driving below the speed limit. They're causing a massive jam - yet nothing is done about it. In the eyes of the law, they're driving safely. You and everyone's time be damned eh?
Or how about we actually invest in good, cheap, efficient public transport? An actual rail network? A highspeed rail network? Oh wait - this is Canada, we can't have that. We're too fucking broke to have anything these days and gotta go around and beg private capital to come in to 'save us'. Canada Strong alright.
Anything less is a cash grab since the fines doesn’t go back into the road system directly to actually induce long term change.
Your username is fitting with this one.
Every single municipality I checked out when these first came into effect put all funds above operation fees into road reconstruction for traffic calming measures. I worked with the City of Barrie to directly do a traffic calming assessment primarily funded through the use of traffic cameras.
Or how about we actually invest in good, cheap, efficient public transport? An actual rail network? A highspeed rail network?
I agree, but go check out the comments and petitions against the new high-speed line proposed and you'll see that were in the minority.
Less than ten percent? Not good but I'm surprised it isn't more tbh. I've noticed it especially at rush hour, people whipping through side streets to save eleven seconds
15 km/h faster than the limit is obviously dangerous in most places, you need reduced survival instincts for that
Question?
What's the difference between speed camera data vs "raw speed data"?
Like fuck, my old car would be going 35mph, but the speedometer would read 43mph, but indeed it was only going 35mph..
Ultimately, I calculated my speedometer to be ~22.5% off calibration, but I just got used to it, ignored it altogether, and just kept pace with traffic. Never got a speeding ticket, cuz I'm not stupid...
The page does not explicitly state what device or method is now being used to collect that data. However, now the cameras may be used only for measurement rather than enforcement.
Other methods could include: pneumatic road tubes, inductive loop detectors embedded in pavement, radar speed sensors, LiDAR sensors
I calculated my speedometer to be ~22.5% off
That car is not road legal.
