The behavioural cue of ‘flexible self-protection’ is a way to establish whether an animal feels pain, scientists say

Crickets that received the hot probe “overwhelmingly” directed their attention to the affected antenna – they groomed it more frequently, and tended to it over a longer period of time, he says. “They weren’t just agitated and flustered. They were directing their attention to the actual antennae that was hit with this hot probe.”

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[–] betanumerus@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why would any animated being run away from danger if it didn't feel pain? It should be assumed that animals feel pain. Pain keeps them away from danger, so they survive, and evolve with those pain genes. For plants however, whether they have pain genes or not doesn't matter for their survival so they evolve either way.

[–] TheBlackLounge@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I don't think tending to damage is enough to prove pain.

Microbes detect and move away from danger. Plants detect danger and react to defend themselves. They also redirect resources to heal. Pain isn't necessary for this.

Pain is for learning, so you avoid what caused the pain. Beings that don't learn shouldn't feel pain, it would just be a waste of energy. That'd only happen in evolutionary quirks (ie loss of capacity to learn after gaining pain). Nature is cruel (grasshoppers get their heads eaten during mating) but not just for the sake of it.

And of course, there's humans that have a condition that makes them not feel pain. They still learn self preservation, and they have some reflexes too.

The article makes the comparison with a hurt dog. Dogs remember for life what hurt them. It's very obvious they learn from pain.

[–] betanumerus@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Pain is a detection of danger. If burning felt good, microbes, plants and animals wouldn't turn away.

[–] TheBlackLounge@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Your body does a whole bunch of things in reaction to danger that don't register as pain. Sweating, contracting pupils, releasing insuline...

You could get philosophical and say that these are pains of your body's subsystems. And if microbes can feel pain then your body functions on the misery of billions of beings trapped inside of you. Not really something you can build a morality on.

[–] betanumerus@lemmy.ca 1 points 22 hours ago

Well what we feel as pain is ultimately chemical reactions. Now I can't go into the entire set of chemical reactions that another being would qualify as "pain", much less hypothesize as to what word another being would qualify anything. I'll leave the spectrum of chemical reactions and non-human pain thresholds to others.

[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Who thought they didn't?

[–] Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Probably the same peotle that burned insects with magnifying glasses

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago

Nope, we called that killing them.

[–] Areldyb@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Gotta join the chorus here. I'm not sure why anyone's surprised to find that something with functioning neurons can feel pain. Wild guess, because I'm not a neuroscientist, but that's gotta be one of the very first things they were ever responsible for conveying, right? "Ouch, don't" has pretty universal utility.

[–] Adulated_Aspersion@lemmy.world 1 points 21 hours ago

Has there been a consensus somewhere that insects (in the animalia kingdom along with fish, birds, reptiles, mammals (humans), etc) do NOT feel pain? I thought everyone knew that intrinsically.

[–] thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I really don't get the idea that people don't think animals or bugs feel pain or distress.

Like if it's got a nervous system I'm sure it has some concept of pain.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Many insects don't have a nervous system. Also, some plants respond to physical damage (albeit very differently than an animal) and they don't have nervous systems, either.

It would also be possible to build a machine that can detect damage to itself and program it for self preservation, but that doesn't intrinsically mean it would feel pain.

[–] blurec@thelemmy.club 2 points 1 day ago

What insect doesn't have a nervous system?

[–] stupidcasey@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago (9 children)

Also the fact that bug's are silently going extinct and nobody cares to notice, seriously stick your head out the window right now and listen, that is a silent apocalypse my friend.

[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago

I opened the window and a wasp came in.

Now I'm selling my house.

[–] knexcar@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

I wish some bugs would go extinct, bed bugs, mosquitos, ticks, maybe yellow jackets. Seems like those populations are strong than ever.

[–] Ophrys@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

75% decline of flying insects population in germany

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/19/europe/insect-decline-germany/

[–] paranoia@feddit.dk 3 points 1 day ago

For what it's worth, my totally non scientific personal experience is that in Denmark, the number of insects that I have to clean off the car has trended upwards in the last two years

[–] SunshineJogger@feddit.org 4 points 2 days ago

Yes. It's one of the most likely apocalypse scenarios.

Here's to hope enough manage to evolve fast enough to adapt to the human poisoning of the word. Because that's the only viable path I can see. That humans manage to change fast enough is highly unlikely

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[–] werty@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 days ago

If it bites me I'm killing it, self defense. I don't care about its pain. It doesn't care about mine.

[–] Malyca@lemmy.zip 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Obviously advanced life forms will feel pain, why did we think otherwise?

[–] eronth@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Weirdly, it seems like "yes" for a large chunk of people. A lot of people seem to think only humans have a large gambit of emotions. Others think it's just mammals. It leads to a weird number of people who seem to think a lot of animals don't really feel anything

[–] partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 days ago (2 children)

But, feeling is such an efficient and proven manner of influencing behavior of complex systems. Make it feel hungry, then it looks for food. It’s phenomenal. Why would we assume simpler beings rely on anything different?

[–] eronth@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm not going to say they make sense, I'm just listing the beliefs I've come across.

[–] partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

To be fair to you (and the beliefs you’ve come across), I like pointing out common sense like it’s the exact opposite of that. I’d argue both that what you said is common sense, and that common sense is wrong about this.

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[–] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 73 points 3 days ago (18 children)

Pain is probably one of the original sensations. I doubt you could find any creature on Earth that doesn't feel it. It is extremely useful for staying alive. I bet we will find out plants even feel some form of pain if we haven't already.

[–] CarpalTunnelButt@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I've seen videos of single cell organisms, and even they look like they feel pain when stabbed or eaten.

[–] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

On the contrary I've seen one where one cell passes straight through another cell, making a hole. The cell that was passed through did not react at all and kept about its business afterwards, even regaining shape. Wild.

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[–] P00ptart@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

There's been several studies that say they might, but nothing entirely conclusive. Some say that the smell of freshly cut grass might be the grass screaming in pain and warning the rest.

[–] mech@feddit.org 30 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

It's not to warn the rest, it's even way cooler.
The smell attracts carnivores, and tells them "Hey there's some tasty herbivores over here" so they take care of the problem. The grass is snitching on the sheep.

Presumably that's why we like the smell of freshly mown grass, too (but such statements are impossible to prove in evolutionary biology).

[–] xep@discuss.online 13 points 3 days ago

I see, that's why sometimes we have to touch grass, so we can high five it for being a bro.

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[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago

The very idea that others don't feel pain, when they're animals, just like we are is so fucking insane that I just don't can't deal with those people.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 25 points 3 days ago (21 children)

Dude what is this news? Of COURSE insects feel pain? A child can see this clearly, as I did when I was a young'un. They twitch and scurry when injured or burned. Don't ask. Anyway.

Why would they be different from animals and FISH that was apparently news as well, that they feel pain and anxiety when caught and killed. Oh and crayfish and lobster when boiled alive 😂😂😂 why wouldn't they feel pain? It just seems so stupid to me to assume they wouldn't.

Here I thought we already knew this and did it anyway because... We gotta eat, right? Animals kill and eat barely-even-dead prey all the time, it's just nature, right??

But I grew up and learned humans don't think other animals feel pain whatsoever. Like bruh wuuuut???? Whatchu think was going on?!

[–] trackball_fetish@lemmy.wtf 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It's the same people who argue against plants being living things.

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[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 38 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (11 children)

Over the many decades I've been alive, there have been regular articles saying "scientists discover that such-and-such an animal may feel pain." And then its forgotten and people continue to treat animals terribly, until a couple of years later a similar article comes out. I can't see where the thought would even come from in the first place that these animals wouldn't feel pain, except for religious dogma and a desire to continue abusing animals while telling yourself it's OK. There's no reason to even suspect most animals aren't feeling pain.

[–] athatet@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Back in the day they didn’t even think human babies felt pain. Also heaven forbid if you are black and/or a woman.

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[–] Mothra@mander.xyz 38 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I seriously don't understand people's assumption that insects don't feel pain, or people who think bug spray is a painless option to kill. Seeing the bugs squirm for half an hour should probably clue you in. Personally it's my last resort.

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[–] Jerb322@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's tick season, I'm using bug spray...

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