this post was submitted on 04 May 2026
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[–] 9point6@lemmy.world 129 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)
[–] Damage@feddit.it 62 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)
[–] huquad@lemmy.ml 70 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Microsoft never promised where the nines would be

[–] chellomere@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago
[–] caseyweederman@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 weeks ago
[–] cyberduck@aussie.zone 27 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I'm stupid what does zero nines uptime mean?

[–] 0x0@lemmy.zip 45 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

These services measure their uptimes in number of nines, the more the better.

[–] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 35 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Sometimes the humorous term "nine fives" (55.5555555%) is used to contrast with "five nines" (99.999%),[18][19][20] though this is not an actual goal….

Maybe Microsoft misunderstood the assignment, and thought this was a goal. At their current rate, it’s certainly more achievable than the more traditional “five nines”.

As an aside, I love how the following is preferences as “casual”, and then the author starts arguing semantics:

Similarly, percentages ending in a 5 have conventional names, traditionally the number of nines, then "five", so 99.95% is "three nines five", abbreviated 3N5.[13][14] This is casually referred to as "three and a half nines",[15] but this is incorrect….

[–] Hazel@piefed.blahaj.zone 10 points 2 weeks ago

the author starts arguing semantics

Legendary levels of pedantry, gave me a real good chuckle 🤭

[–] cyberduck@aussie.zone 7 points 2 weeks ago

Ah makes sense. Thanks

[–] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

When contracting a service, usually there are clauses that specify that it needs to be fully working and available x% of time, and compensation may be due in case this goal isn't met.

Let's say GitHub was down for 1 full day in the last year, that's 99.7% availability. That's "2 nines", but sometimes people might say "2 nines five", meaning "better than 99.5% uptime".

I'd say that the expectation for a high availability service nowadays is "5 nines": 99.999% uptime. That's around 5 minutes of downtime in a full year. This kind of performance from a site like GitHub is just unacceptable...

[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago

Lies! 89.98% has two nines in it!

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

Thank you, that is much more helpful than OP graph

[–] DahGangalang@infosec.pub 39 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Obv a gross looking chart, but I am bothered that the left hand scale is trimmed off. I expect those are 10% increments, but wouldn't be shocked if Original was like 99.0, 98.0, 97.0, etc.

[–] vogi@piefed.social 39 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You'd be surprised: https://damrnelson.github.io/github-historical-uptime/

But weirdly enough it feels much worse using gh professionally than the scale makes it seem.

[–] lemmyman@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The graph is neat.

Saving some people a click: the cut-off y scale in the OP image is in 0.1% increments. So the lowest point is a little above 99.5%

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Thank you! I was thinking "it can't just be me that's bothered"

[–] frank@sopuli.xyz 35 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] InvalidName2@lemmy.zip 18 points 2 weeks ago

It's the best of both worsts.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 32 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I've worked on services with 5 nines of availability (i.e. 99.999% available, less than 5 minutes of downtime allowed per year). I've more frequently worked on ones with 4 nines, where you're allowed almost an hour of downtime per year. GitHub is now barely maintaining 2 nines. That's just embarrassing.

Each "nine" you add is much more difficult. To get four nines you need people on call who can start working on a problem within 5 minutes and fix it within a few more minutes, and you can only get those calls once every couple of months. Five nines means that you need people at their desks in shifts ready to start fixing something the moment there's a problem because it would take too long for someone on-call to get their computer out, connect and authenticate. It requires warm backup systems that are sitting idle but ready to take over fully at a moment's notice.

A two nines system is allowed to be down for 100x as long as a four nines system, and 1000x as long as a five nines system. It's almost 15 minutes of downtime allowed per day, compared to about 15 minutes every 3 months for a four-nines system. Gamers wouldn't even put up with a two-nines system for a video game. It's absurd to allow that for a critical piece of infrastructure for software.

[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Five nines means that you need people at their desks in shifts ready to start fixing something the moment there’s a problem

No, it means you don't have outages. Ever.

Five-nines is something like 7 minutes of downtime throughout the entire year. At best, you might have automated failover systems that require tiny outages. No human involvement, though, unless you're deal with some major breakage that would have killed the five-nines commitment that year, anyway.

It's takes a human something like 5-10 minutes just to get out of bed and figure out the situation, anyway.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

No, it means you don't have outages. Ever.

No, that's infinite nines, which isn't possible.

Five-nines is something like 7 minutes of downtime throughout the entire year. At best, you might have automated failover systems that require tiny outages. No human involvement, though, unless you're deal with some major breakage that would have killed the five-nines commitment that year, anyway.

Yes, you have automated failover systems. But, if something happens which causes those systems to fail over, you need to immediately investigate what happened and why. Even at four nines you have automatic failover, redundant system, hot spares, etc. But, you accept that sometimes not everything will work as planned and you'll need to fix something. Five nines is just that and more.

It's takes a human something like 5-10 minutes just to get out of bed and figure out the situation, anyway.

Right, which is why I said that four nines is your realistic maximum if you're going to have people on call who aren't actually at their desks. To get better than four nines you need to have around the clock coverage with people at their desks so when a system breaks you have eyes on it in something like 30s.

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[–] Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I’m used to environments where they expect five nines, get 3 (maybe 4) nines, and fund for 1 nine.

[–] HrabiaVulpes@europe.pub 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I cal bullshit on "Gamers wouldn't put up with a two-nines system for a video game"

Elder Scrolls Online has a weekly scheduled outage for about 8h. Every monday. Players have been complaining about it for years, but game is still popular.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

How often is it offline outside the maintenance windows?

Yeah, maintenance windows are annoying, but they don't really count when describing the availability of a system. Many government systems are only available during normal business hours. That means they're offline for 16 hours per day. What matters is how available they are when they're supposed to be working.

For Elder Scrolls, two nines would mean that the game was allowed to be down for more than an hour a week outside of those maintenance windows. Or, if measured by quarters, which is more typical, the game would still have those maintenance windows, but, in addition, it might be down for a full day once per quarter.

Basically, the 8 hour windows every Monday is a trade-off so that the rest of the week is uninterrupted. They probably manage three nines the rest of the week by shifting any serious maintenance into the weekly downtime.

And, as for the game being "still popular", one site says that there are currently 7199 players in Elder Scrolls but more than 161k in World of Warcraft. It could be that part of the reason that World of Warcraft is more popular is that it doesn't have 8 hour maintenance windows every week, but it does often have 2+ hour windows. The number of players who are willing to put up with 8 hour maintenance windows every week seems pretty small.

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Nothing to make a point like snipping off the y-axis scaling.

I hate Microslop like any person with > 2 brain cells, but that graph is useless - all visible y-entries end in a 0 - might as well be 99.990, 99.980, 99.970, ...

[–] Jordan117@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It's just Xitter's image viewer cropping it automatically; the original upload has it.

[–] prenatal_confusion@feddit.org 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It is still bad practice to select a narrow window from a axis like this and show the difference that seems massive relative to what is shown but isn't that significant when we can see the relation to the whole.

Graph 101

[–] Obi@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 week ago

This is a commonly known issue with graphs and one that gets repeated without a lot of consideration for context. While it's generally a good basic rule to have graphs show the full vertical axis, it's not like it's a hard rule that needs to be followed 100% of the time. In this case for example, moving from 99.999% (five nines) to 99% (two nines) is a significant effect, it has importance. Displaying the full axis would make that difference unnoticeable and render the graph useless.

[–] k0e3@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Surely they could just Copilot their way out of this mess lmao

[–] tja@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago

They are trying ^^

[–] JordanZ@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

My understanding was GitHub was primarily hosted on AWS when Microsoft acquired it. I’m assuming a lot of that instability has been caused by moving it over to Azure in bits and pieces.

[–] BleatingZombie@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

I think you're right, which is funny because now I dont trust Azure either

[–] paris@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 2 weeks ago

https://damrnelson.github.io/github-historical-uptime/

A lot of this is GitHub Actions alone, but a lot of it isn't. I also don't know how well GitHub tracked outages before the Microsoft acquisition. It's entirely possible the graph looks so bad because they only took outage tracking seriously after being acquired. I don't know.

Further related discussion on Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47925317

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It is impressive how bad Microsoft is fumbling the bag

[–] 0x0@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 week ago

Thank Bog there are Codeberg and forĝejo.

[–] bagsy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

But the payment processing service has 9 nines of uptime......

[–] Safeguard@beehaw.org 4 points 2 weeks ago

Is that real? Because that... Makes it real clear...

[–] ServantOfRa@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 week ago

Remember when mSlop bought HotMail? Same shit, different decade.

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That's just fucking disgraceful.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You should see what they are doing to Minecraft

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Unfortunately I have, my kid is absolutely fucking obsessed with it

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago

In your kids defense, Minecraft is amazing

Microsoft has just enshitified it

[–] SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

How many of those outages were due to AI training?

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