this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2026
-7 points (31.6% liked)

Canada

11926 readers
437 users here now

What's going on Canada?

Related Communities

🍁 Meta

🗺️ Provinces / Territories

🏙️ Cities / Local Communities

Sorted alphabetically by city name.

🏒 Sports

Baseball

Basketball

Curling

Hockey

Soccer

💻 Schools / Universities

Sorted by province, then by total full-time enrolment.

💵 Finance, Shopping, Sales

🗣️ Politics

🍁 Social / Culture

Rules

  1. Keep the original title when submitting an article. You can put your own commentary in the body of the post or in the comment section.

Reminder that the rules for lemmy.ca also apply here. See the sidebar on the homepage: lemmy.ca

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
otter@lemmy.ca
mp3@lemmy.ca
otter@piefed.ca
mp3@piefed.ca
-7
Syrian refugee found not criminally responsible for failing to stop after deadly Ontario crash gets absolute discharge (o.canada.com)
submitted 3 weeks ago by CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca
13 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Syrian refugee Mouhamad Al Jalmoud killed two and severely injured after failing to stop at a red light in Hamilton, Ont.

Guy didn't even have a valid Canadian Drivers License.

top 13 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] TribblesBestFriend@startrek.website 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

He was released from Collins Bay Penitentiary on September 24, 2025, on bail pending appeal.

[…] Two psychiatrists testified at his criminal trial that Al Jalmoud “suffered from (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) PTSD on the evening of September 25, 2022, that the PTSD led to a dissociative state triggered by Mr. Al Jalmoud’s encounter with the police officers in the white minivan, and that Mr. Al Jalmoud was in a dissociative state until he woke up in the hospital hours later. They both testified that Mr. Al Jalmoud was not in control of his actions. While he was capable of performing motor functions, he was not conscious or aware of what he was doing, either while driving away from the police or after the collision.

The guy is on bail, cannot do anything without his father present by the term of the bail and is awaiting the result of the appeal court. He did 6 months of prison

This is tinily vieil racism headline

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

he suffered from (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder) PTSD on the evening of September 25, 2022,

that the PTSD led to a dissociative state triggered by Mr. Al Jalmoud’s encounter with the police officers in the white minivan [after the fact]

, and that Mr. Al Jalmoud was in a dissociative state until he woke up in the hospital hours later.

So the police triggered his PTSD after the fact of him driving knowing he had no license or skills to drive?

[–] CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

You are missing an extraordinary opportunity here. You are thinking just like a defence attorney. (tongue firmly in cheek of course)

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world -4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Nah, Im more thinking like a prosecutor

~~If his dissociation wasnt triggered until he recognized the police in pursuit until after he was identified as operating a vehicle in an improper manner, how can they resolve his criminal liabillity ~~after~~ before the fact?~~

~~How can his PTSD be used after before the fact to justify his originally unlawful and dangerous operation of a vehicle and leaving the scene of an accident after the fact and use the excuse of his PTSD was activated after he was caught operating a vehicle unlicensed thru his objectively DANGEROUS (==improper) driving?~~

~~Like even if his PTSD was activated in a way that makes him NCR selectively after the fact, there were crimes before that they can nail him with like dangerous driving that should presumably be applied before that that ensure he's given a criminal conviction and he is further sanctioned.~~

~~This is also the problem with accepting random refugees from random nations with no analysis about who is entering and what their cultural/legal awareness is, or that of their relatives that make these resources available for them to cause such damage.~~

~~At a certain point, there needs to be a counterargument of "He's guilty of operating a motor vehicle knowing full well he was never authorized to do so and his failure to obey the law resulted in several deaths rhat would not hsve occured had he not had access to a motor vehicle or even better not been in the country to have committed the wrongfuk act that led to unwarranted multiple civillian deaths"~~

~~Like, how do you seriously argue this as a case of racism when he had zero reason to be here but even less reason to have believed he was authorized to drive at all?~~

~~Please, by all means, try to argue he had any discernable means of believeing he had any reason to try and drive when he was objectively unlicensed, he had likely not recieced driving lessons, etc.~~

~~Its almost like random ass people with zero adjudicated value to the Canadian economy shouldnt be fastracked to be able to enter or stay in the country and whoever allowed that by loosening standards to enable that kind of outcome absent any prolonged supervision should be also held accountable.~~

~~Almost like they should have to prove on an objecitvely provable basis that nobody but Canada would accept them. It shouldnt matter that their relatives are all Canadian, that never should have been a fastpass for people objectively unable to understand there are laws and systems to try and prevent what they on their unscrutinized entry have immediately caused despite the best of legal intentions.~~

~~Why are we so willing to eagerly accept new potential competing wage slaves that legally and practically destroy existing standards of living and also standards of conduct that make everyone already here less safe?~~

~~At the end of the day, he should be unarguably bound bsck for Syria after his sentence concludes if not before then and just be inadmissable on reentry attempt. Whoever allowed for this should be held legally just as liable for any of his damages. This case, like the random indian truck driver who killed the Humbold kids, should be just as much attributed to whoever politically enabked such outrageous entries.~~

~~The fact that someone who never should have even been here despite all common sense (how many safe areas ajacent to Syria were available for him to immediately flee to prior to the literal ocean-away Canada) managed to be unconditionally accepted and unsupervised to the point he literally murdered several native canadian citizens thru no fault of their own) is beyond aggregious. Whoever allowed him to enter should be co-serving a lifetime murder sentence for allowing the potential of unmitigated harm he was allowed to faciley enter despite the basis of~~

Sounds like he could have been psychologically evaluated before he was allowed entry. Fucking weird as fuck how this never happens until they've caused untold damage and some private citizen or defense group has to cough up the expert evaluation+testimony that instead cements the harm and even gets them off their charges.

[–] CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca -1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

He failed to stop at a red light and killed two while he was trying to evade the police.

"The review board heard police spotted the Ford Escape “swerving in and out of lanes and repeatedly increasing/decreasing the rate of speed” before the deadly crash, said the March 19 decision.

Al Jalmoud stopped for a red light at an intersection and failed to go when the light turned green, said the decision.

“The police officers at this time got out of their unmarked (white minivan), in uniform, to check on the driver based on their concerns that he might be distracted or impaired. As the police officers stepped out of their vehicle Mr. Al Jalmoud took off in the Escape. He kept heading north and failed to stop for another red light, colliding with the Hyundai.

The impact caused the Hyundai “to spin out of control,” said the decision.

John Wignall was ejected out of the rear window of the Hyundai and into a building. He died at the scene just after 11 p.m. Paramedics took Ryan Valentim, the other Hyundai passenger, to hospital, where he was pronounced dead a short time later.

The Hyundai’s driver, Hardick Patel, was taken to hospital with “very serious” injuries.

Immediately after the crash, Al Jalmoud “took off on foot leaving the scene."

Then, a "jury found Al Jalmoud “guilty of two counts of dangerous driving causing death and one count of dangerous driving causing bodily harm,” said the review board." and he was sentenced to over 3 years prison.

[–] LycanGalen@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

There is pearl clutching every time an article about an NCR determination is shared here, and it shows how much the average person doesn't know about our legal system. So here's an overview of Not Criminally Responsible:

The 6 months mentioned in this article was the time taken to assess them, ensure they're fit to stand trial, and the trial itself. It's not a standard time, these cases usually take forever.

Assuming the person is found fit to stand trial, the judge will remand them to the forensic psychiatry department where they will be assessed 24/7 by a team of senior psychiatric professionals. No one working here is fresh out of school; they all have years of experience, and have expertise in symptoms and treatments of mental health issues. They can dell the difference between a personality disorder and psychosis, and because there is always a team of professionals around, they figure out if someone is trying to fake an illness pretty damn quickly.

The unit staff are tasked with many things, including stabilising the individual prior to their court appointment whenever possible. More central to the main NCR conversation is them determining whether the person was aware of their actions, and the consequences of their actions at the time they committed the crime. If they were aware of both or either, they are not considered NCR. Once the assessment is complete, the lead psychiatrist will be summoned to court to present their findings and expert testimony. With that information, the judge will determine whether the individual is NCR or not.

Assuming they are found NCR, they are then under the purview of a board which consists of 5 people: the chair; who has a legal background (judge/lawyer), a medical doctor, a psychiatrist, a layperson, and one other individual who can be a second of any of the other 4 roles.

The board determines the requirements to keep the community safe, as well as what is needed to keep the individual healthy. This means the board decides where this person can live, who they must live with (someone responsible for them), where they can go, who they can see, what they can do, what they may purchase (if relevant to their charge), what they may own, what medications and treatments they must undergo, how often they must be in contact with forensic psychiatry supports, their lawyer, and the board. None of that is optional, and if they fail to comply, either by choice or illness, the police will bring them back to remand.

Unlike a guilty charge, there is no end date for being NCR. This will be this person's life for the foreseeable future, until the board determines that they have been mentally stable, compliant, and self-managing for a long enough time as to no longer be considered a risk. For anyone who has experience with the illnesses/conditions that tend to contribute to these situations (psychosis, dementia, certain types of brain damage, etc.), they can attest that these illnesses do not -do- stability. This means most people who are NCR have their lives controlled by a board for a very, very long time. Much longer than the jail term would have been, had they not been found NCR.

This isn't the "get out of jail free" card media has portrayed it to be. And if you made it to the bottom of this essay, congrats: you now know a crap tonne more about how our legal system works than the average Canadian.

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Ill admit the indefinite supervision part usually gets overshadowed. Its the best place for him but there was a far better time and set of circumstances for it which was when he arrived

It just sucks that it always takes citizens first being aggregiously harmed to the point of total destruction for the system to do what it should have been doing as a condition of admission. How hard would it be to supervise them while they adjust and make sure they've been evaluated by hired government psychiatrists dealing with refugees etc to make sure they are stable or they are moved along to the help they need in a safe, detached environment?

All these arguments essentially saying "Compassion, fucknuts" miss how uncompassionate and irresponsible it is to after taking in likely traumatized, vulnerable people and expecting them to drop all their habits and cultural baggage such that they're just one of the gang now and everyone'll be fine. If they qualify for asylum they've been thru some shit, they need intensive care and reintegration, not daddies credit card to max out and go wild. Thats insane but its the universal policy i guess

[–] LycanGalen@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

I agree, it is horrible that it takes people dying for some of these folks to get help. I do think that your focus on the trauma of refugees is slightly misplaced. Refugees and immigrants are not over-represented in the NCR population. There are more elderly Canadian-born men, Rich Canadian-born women, and Canadian-born college students than there are refugees who are NCR - just like there are more of those demographics at the macro level in Canada. This indicates it has less to do with habits and cultural baggage, and much more to do with Canada's lack of accessible mental health support for all residents. We have no insights into this particular individual, however, most people deemed NCR have prior history of accessing mental health support; or attempting, but failing, to access those supports. Our healthcare systems are not set up to ensure people with mental health difficulties have access to the level of care that would be needed to proactively intervene, or keep communities safe.

It's also troubling that this incident happened immediately after engaging with Law enforcement. This indicates a lack of training and/or investment in the person they were engaging: The officers stopped this individual, who was driving erratically with no license, and did not recognize that this person was unsafe to drive. It's disheartening that lives could have been saved if these officers had picked up on this person entering a PTSD attack. It unfortunately reflects a larger issue of law enforcement being ill prepared/ill supported (be that burnout/compassion fatigue, or just not having access to social workers/community deescalation supports) and it resulting in people being hurt/killed when mental health is a factor.

[–] CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

If you would have addressed any of the facts of this situation you might have a point.

[–] LycanGalen@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Al Jamoud was found Not Criminally Responsible. The article you linked, and most mainstream media hype this as "a criminal getting away scott free" I addressed the fact he was found NCR, and what that actually means, the safety measures put in place, and how they are assessed.

But sure, bud, whatever you say.

[–] CanIFishHere@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

A jury found him guilty. Are they now racist? A judge sentenced him to 6 years prison. racist? The point of article, and opinions of many Canadians is the appeal process has lost site of justice.

[–] LycanGalen@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Are you reading anything you're commenting on? Where in anything I've posted here, have I mentioned racism?

The NCR charge in relation to the two deaths cannot be appealed.

What is being appealed is the charge of driving without a license, and endangerment: the charges placed by the police when he was originally pulled over. His lawyer is appealing those charges because that's what defence lawyers do. The lawyer is literally doing his job.

[–] Routhinator@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 weeks ago

What the fuck does this dudes race and living history have to do with this incident, exactly?