this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2026
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History Memes

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[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Explanation: The height of indigenous technology in what-is-now USA and Canada was actually in the 15th century AD, with well-developed urban centers, copperworking, and increased understanding of the mechanical processes of the world.

For reasons that are not entirely certain, but certainly were at least exacerbated by European diseases, these thriving civilizations had a massive collapse in the 16th century, resulting in indigenous societies that were effectively post-apocalyptic by the 17th and early 18th century.

Unfortunately, that was also around the time European colonization began in earnest.

[–] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 7 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I thought (probably wrong, not a historian) that it was disease that spread faster than the Europeans that brought it? As in, first contact happened, and then basically the continent died before any real settlement action could begin because of the diseases first contact brought?

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

European disease definitely spread faster than the Europeans themselves did, it's just not certain what the exact chain of events was. It's definitely not an area I'm extremely well-read in, but I know there's speculation that the collapse of complex urban civilizations in what-is-now the USA and Canada may have started before Euro disease started rampaging through, for a variety of factors.

Undoubtedly, though, the massive disease death tolls put some sturdy nails in the coffin.

[–] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I didn't know this. I have read up on pre contact NA, but I always assumed the collapse was the direct result of European contact. I wonder if we'll ever figure out why it happened

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 2 points 1 month ago

Like I said, 'may' and 'speculation.' To my knowledge there's not a strong consensus on the chain of events currently. European disease being the primary cause is still very much a mainstream and respected opinion.

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There are theories that there were major issues with North American native populations before European contact, including the abandonment of various pueblo settlements in the American southwest and collapse of civilization in the Mississippi River Basin.

So you had the equivalent of the Bronze Age collapse occurring in most of North America, then sea peoples come from Europe with very virulent diseases and a desire to take over the land.

[–] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 month ago

That's wild, I did not know this. Maybe bronze age collapse is the great filter! Lol

[–] Broadfern@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Damned sea peoples, screwing up perfectly good civilization.

[–] Mantzy81@aussie.zone 5 points 1 month ago

cries in Gadigal, from the banks of the Botany Bay with stone, wood and bone weapons facing 18th century British soldiers with Brown Bess flintlock muskets